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Keni

Thoughts about Addictive Drums 2

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Toontrack is a good company! I have several of their products, and they seem to keep things up to date, and provide excellent support.

As a non drummer, I picked up EZDrummer rather than SD3, which meets my needs for now. It's good to know that there is an upgrade path! Plus Toontrack is always releasing new expansions.

I also have XLN AD2, and a number of ADPack expansions for it. It's still a functional product, but it now seems like ages since any new AD-Packs have been released. I will say XLN still provide updates and support, but don't seem very interested in leading the market...

 

 

 

 

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We reviewed Toontrack’s Superior Drummer 2 back in December 2008 and, with numerous updates and new expansion-pack content since then, SD2 has maintained its position as one of the most popular choices for musicians wanting a top-end virtual acoustic drummer — despite some undoubtedly brilliant competition. However, Superior Drummer 3 is now upon us and, almost nine years on, I think it is fair to say that expectations are high. So, just how have Toontrack attempted to make Superior, well... even more superior?

SOS article from 2017

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/toontrack-superior-drummer-3
 

Quote

Pros

Brilliant workflow for drum part construction.

Enhanced mixing and effects options.

Sophisticated drum replacement features.

The new acoustic kits sound incredible.

Cons

More expensive than SD2 (but certainly great value for money).

Will undoubtedly mean less work for real drummers.

You’ll have the problem of making everything else in your mix sound as good as the drums.

 

Edited by abacab

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Keni, I have used AD1 & 2, as well as SD2 & 3, and after 12 years of using VSTs for drums I prefer SD3.  The big difference to me is the fact that the on-board mixer in SD3 can apply f/x to individual tracks as well as the entire kit, whereas AD2 f/x can only be applied globally to the whole kit.  I always start with bare tracks and apply f/x only as needed to individual tracks or the whole kit.  With AD2, I have to use multiple instances of it to process individual drums where each instance uses only one drum, thus, I sometimes have to use 4-6 separate tracks to get the sound  I want.  Because SD3 has a complete mixer, I only need one instance of it to get my sound.  The f/x are very good, with lots of presets for all drums.  Over time, I have created a few defaults kits that I use as a starting point and go from there.  A big benefit is that the drum samples sound quite good with nothing on them.  That's all I can offer, but I hope it helps.

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3 hours ago, Keni said:

I found an "approved" seller on ebay selling SD3 for $50! Details claim it to be a digital download though it speaks of sending via USPS?. Clone from China? I don't know.

Do you seriously think that anyone would sell a legitimate license of Superior Drummer 3 for $50? A product that has a regular price of $419? Well, I don’t. It’s most certainly a cracked product. Just look at the top-level domain in the link you so generously supplied. Promoting such links in this forum is hardly in accordance with forum rules.

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12 minutes ago, Canopus said:

Just look at the top-level domain in the link you so generously supplied. Promoting such links in this forum is hardly in accordance with forum rules.

The top level domain checks out as clean with a number of URL scanners. :)

But that still does not guarantee that the actual seller has any scruples...

One example of URL scan: https://www.wmtips.com/tools/info/www.bestdeals.today
 

Quote

 

Bestdeals.today is 7 years and 5 months old. It is the 📈10,696th most visited website in the world and the 3,666th most visited website in the United States. It has a medium pagerank of 3.8, which means that the website has a pretty good amount of backlinks.

Requests are handled by the Cloudflare web server, which is hosted by Cloudflare, Inc., located in the United States and associated with IP address 104.21.95.243.

The domain is registered with GoDaddy.com, LLC and will expire in 6 months and 15 days.

 

Another: https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/cd0acad836647803259c1cc91c0bae4121d2d02ac990e7cd3220eac69259af81/detection

Quote

No security vendors flagged this URL as malicious

 

Edited by abacab

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59 minutes ago, Canopus said:

Do you seriously think that anyone would sell a legitimate license of Superior Drummer 3 for $50? A product that has a regular price of $419? Well, I don’t. It’s most certainly a cracked product. Just look at the top-level domain in the link you so generously supplied. Promoting such links in this forum is hardly in accordance with forum rules.

If it is such, I apologize, but I do not yet know what it is. I agree it seems crazy, but I can imagine situations?

I thought all major softwares require online activation so I'm not quite sure how that would get hacked?

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54 minutes ago, abacab said:

The top level domain checks out as clean with a number of URL scanners. :)

But that still does not guarantee that the actual seller has any scruples...

One example of URL scan: https://www.wmtips.com/tools/info/www.bestdeals.today
 

Another: https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/cd0acad836647803259c1cc91c0bae4121d2d02ac990e7cd3220eac69259af81/detection

 

Very promising. Thanks!

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1 hour ago, abacab said:

No security vendors flagged this URL as malicious

That just means that they didn't find any malware on the site, not that their business practices are ethical.

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1 hour ago, bdickens said:

That just means that they didn't find any malware on the site, not that their business practices are ethical.

You quoted me out of context. Thanks. 🤪

I also said (if you read my post) "But that still does not guarantee that the actual seller has any scruples..."

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All very true. Many things are possible. I’m sorry if I unintentionally did something wrong.

I bought thru legitimate sites in faith that all is legal. 

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7 hours ago, Lynn Wilson said:

Keni, I have used AD1 & 2, as well as SD2 & 3, and after 12 years of using VSTs for drums I prefer SD3.  The big difference to me is the fact that the on-board mixer in SD3 can apply f/x to individual tracks as well as the entire kit, whereas AD2 f/x can only be applied globally to the whole kit.  I always start with bare tracks and apply f/x only as needed to individual tracks or the whole kit.  With AD2, I have to use multiple instances of it to process individual drums where each instance uses only one drum, thus, I sometimes have to use 4-6 separate tracks to get the sound  I want.  Because SD3 has a complete mixer, I only need one instance of it to get my sound.  The f/x are very good, with lots of presets for all drums.  Over time, I have created a few defaults kits that I use as a starting point and go from there.  A big benefit is that the drum samples sound quite good with nothing on them.  That's all I can offer, but I hope it helps.

Thanks for the input Lynn..

I do like SD3 better than AD2, but you’re mistaken. AD2 has plenty of fx available for individual pieces. I turn all that off anyway as I typically prefer to choose my own devices and use discrete outputs so that I have individual faders for each piece in CbB.

 

I did this in Session Drummer3, Ad2, SSD5, MTPowerdrum, and now SD3

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11 hours ago, Lynn Wilson said:

 With AD2, I have to use multiple instances of it to process individual drums where each instance uses only one drum, thus, I sometimes have to use 4-6 separate tracks to get the sound  I want.  

You don't have to do that, you can just route them to discrete tracks from one instance- this video is very informative on the process 

 

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This is an excellent video from Mike! Very good overview of the AD2 individual output routing in Cakewalk!

The old Cakewalk website posted a useful AD2 drum map and template back in the Sonar days. It's still good in CbB!

https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013364/Setting-up-a-Drum-Map-for-Addictive-Drums-2-in-SONAR (download is in this link)

http://www.noelborthwick.com/cakewalk/2015/02/06/drum-maps-ad2-in-sonar/

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I prefer Addictive Drums 2 to any other kit. Great sounding kits and you can break the kit up to put on separate tracks to get the individual sound for each drum you want for any style of music. Using a controller or writing drum  score doesn't really matter, Aal the drum programs are good, it personal preference with sound and price.

 

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@Keni, I hear ya, but, 

On 8/6/2021 at 12:30 PM, Keni said:

The simple work model of:

1:  Instrument makes a good sound

2: record it

isn't always an option and especially so for drums. I got into BFD when demos started having to sound like polished masters. 

On 8/6/2021 at 12:30 PM, Keni said:

a less than optimum sounding kit (of any given "flavor") forced by a talented engineer to conform to his desire

Not quite sure what you meant by this, as anything you buy is always at the discretion of some recording engineer (drums/tuning/mics/mic placement/preamps/room) unless you record it yourself. The choices BFD made were a great fit for what I was looking for with a good range of expansions (ya can never have enough snares) including samples from quality 3rd party vendors that dropped right in.

TT SD was interesting with kits by Al Schmitt and Chuck Ainlay but I wasn't finding what I was used to with BFD in the little time I had to check it out. I could be missing something . 

Hopefully your find on SD3 isn't a case of "too good to be true". Feel free to share you thoughts on it once you get some time with it. 

Edited by jackson white

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4 hours ago, jackson white said:

@Keni, I hear ya, but, 

isn't always an option and especially so for drums. I got into BFD when demos started having to sound like polished masters. 

Not quite sure what you meant by this, as anything you buy is always at the discretion of some recording engineer (drums/tuning/mics/mic placement/preamps/room) unless you record it yourself. The choices BFD made were a great fit for what I was looking for with a good range of expansions (ya can never have enough snares) including samples from quality 3rd party vendors that dropped right in.

TT SD was interesting with kits by Al Schmitt and Chuck Ainley but I wasn't finding what I was used to with BFD in the little time I had to check it out. I could be missing something . 

Hopefully your find on SD3 isn't a case of "too good to be true". Feel free to share you thoughts on it once you get some time with it. 

Ha... So far all is well. Installed and working as I learn my way around.

 

My point is this. As an engineer I know the ease and joy of recording a kit that sounds great.

I also know many techniques and methods to bring less than optimum drums up to that benchmark.

Some engineers did a wonderful job doing that but when I strip them down to the actual drum, it is... less than optimum.

 

Of course, we all have opinions on what is good, optimal or otherwise.

I stripped down and built a simple basic kit with my own methods. Far less encumbered and sounds as good or better than any with all the processing. They used kick inside, outside, and sub to achieve their desire, I got just as much only using the inside mic... and I turn off all the bleeds! I’ve spent too much of my life dealing with the problems of bleed to willingly add it! 😎

 

I do understand it’s value right time and place.

 

Meanwhile, learning my way around and finding how to get what I want from it. Monster program for sure!

I'm still keeping an eye out for BFD as it's UI is much more to my liking

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I just discovered that I can make SD3's interface more what I prefer....

I just learned how to separate my cymbals so that they can appear in CbB on Separate faders! No need for a work around...

A bit of learning and thinking found the way. A Bit painstaking and of course I will/would need to rebuild each kit this way eventually.... Yikes!

This program makes panning cymbals a lot more difficult to figure out. Even AD2 has a simple pan widget for same. In SD3 each cymbal needs to have a separate mic channel created to allow this... But it's there!

Building it now! 😉

 

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On 8/6/2021 at 12:44 PM, Keni said:

Whoa!

I wonder what crazy door I just opened?

Should've kept looking. There's apparently another one for only $15. Conspicuous lack of deets, sellers seem to be from all over, but perhaps TT allows users to resell their license? 

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3 hours ago, jackson white said:

Should've kept looking. There's apparently another one for only $15. Conspicuous lack of deets, sellers seem to be from all over, but perhaps TT allows users to resell their license? 

I doubt they would. It seems no one does.

No registration or authorization at all on this one. Not even mentions or traces of such found. I wasn’t trying to do anything but find a good deal and took a chance. It’s not a bad software, but it still leaves me wanting. Some good pieces, but less than thrilled with toms.

Hoping BFD survives and eventually finds it's way here. I’ve got a feeling it might suit me better, For now? We'll see. 

 

 

 

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Just to add, I totally agree about AD mixer interface and how it's limiting.  I too have yet to find a Kick or Snare that sounds like what I'm used to in a real kit.  I too bought additional kit pieces only to never use them.  I do use it in 90% of my tracks and just fudge it into something "OK"  For my backing tracks it's perfect as it's simple to use and with the same pre set on all the songs it keeps the live mix in line. 

I also use Session Drummer which I can plunk my own samples into. I sampled my little drum kit and it's freaky to have SD play my kit. It's very real sounding.  I have about 20 snare shots using different sticks and velocity. Too bad I can't layer those but I use the Pad thing for those. 

  But it is an option for you as well. I'm sure your neighbor's won't notice random whacks, bashes and crashes in the middle of the day as you sample your kit.   

Edited by John Vere

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