IO level relative to track

[Mark Bastable]

I have a terrible feeling this question is going to win some sort of prize for 'laughable newbie post'. But wotthehell...


All my recorded tracks are at reasonable levels. The quitar I'm trying to record is coming in through the Focusrite 2i2 at a reasonable level (the LED indicates that) and is hitting the armed track at a reasonable level (about the same as all the recorded tracks). The master is set at a reasonable level too.

Trouble is, the output level of the incoming guitar is insufficient to be easily heard against the track, which makes it difficult to play and record.

I can't turn it up going into the Focusrite, because it'll overpeak.

I can't turn it up on its fader, for the same reason.

I suppose I could take every single other instrument down quite a bit, but that seems a workaround rather than a solution, as they're all at reasonable levels.

So obviously I'm missing something here. What should I be adjusting?

Oh, the Focusrite  - which is sending all audio to the monitors as well as accepting the guitar input - doesn't have knob to balance the input against the track, so that's not going to be an answer.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Mark Bastable

[rsinger]

The first thing that comes to mind is eq. It's likely you need to eq the guitar for the mix. What sounds good by itself changes in the mix. If it's a lead guitar part - guitarists often boost the mids (around 500 hz). It could also be a problem with dynamics, you can add a compressor to tame the peaks, either before the IF or immediately inside the DAW. If you do it in the DAW then add some make up gain in the compressor and it will raise the level of the track.

[reginaldStjohn]

You also don't mention if the guitar part is a direct recording of the dry guitar signal or through a miced amp or other.  You can look at the recorded guitar level in either peak or average levels. peaks tell you how close the highest values are getting to clipping on the input. The average tells you how much power the average signal has. A dry guitar signal, generally,  will have high peaks but low average signal level and this makes it quite. Put a guitar through a tube amp or amp simulation and those peaks can get compressed and bring up the average level.

[John Vere]

This is a issue with these interfaces and a few others. 
As the Op has said there’s no blend control to mix input direct signal with the DAW playback. There is only an on /off switch. This I guess was to save $10 in cost. 
And to rub salt in the wound I don’t think the 2i2 comes with the software mixer like the upper models do. At least the first generation doesn’t. 
This leaves you no choice but to lower the master level while tracking. 
You can do this with the master buss or use the Interface strips found hidden on the far right in console view. 
By the way. The Cakewalk level controls  have  no bearing on the record level. Only the interface can adjust level. 

[Mark Bastable]

Thank you all. This gives me something to work with.

@John Vere  Yeah, I am not, I suspect, the first to buy an interface (having read a whole load of reviews) before I knew enough to realise that there was an important thing that it couldn't do. I mean, it just wouldn't occur to a newbie that there was going to be an issue with that.

This, as Keef might say, is the price of an education.

[mark skinner]

The easiest way I've found around this is to have the track you are recording , output to your interface instead of master. You can then turn down the master (while recording) and still hear your signal .  Direct monitor should be On if your interface has a switch.  I've had to do this recording a low volume acoustic when going direct in. I can't jack up the input high enough because of the introduced noise.              mark

[Mark Bastable]

50 minutes ago, mark skinner said:

The easiest way I've found around this is to have the track you are recording , output to your interface instead of master. You can then turn down the master (while recording) and still hear your signal .  Direct monitor should be On if your interface has a switch.  I've had to do this recording a low volume acoustic when going direct in. I can't jack up the input high enough because of the introduced noise.              mark

I'll have a go at that, thanks.

[John Vere]

But that doesn’t work because on most systems at a safe buffer you’re going to have a delay of 10 to 30 ms.
The whole idea behind direct monitoring is to eliminate this by not monitoring your input after it has suffered you systems round trip latency. 

My rule is do not use input echo on audio tracks unless you are using a guitar sim. 
 

The other solution is a small mixer set up. But for that to work smoothly  you need a 4x4 interface  But there is a way to rig up a 2x2 as well

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by John Vere

[RBH]

You can set up a buss and route all other tracks to it pretty quickly. Then just lower this playback buss as needed. I've run into similar situations with very high end interfaces, it's typical that your reference level needs to change from existing tracks playback level to input record level, and keep the ganged playback level referenced to the input - happens with analogue console / tape systems as well.

[mark skinner]

22 hours ago, John Vere said:

My rule is do not use input echo on audio tracks unless you are using a guitar sim. 

Exactly right. This can be done Without the input echo on . When I said to use direct monitoring I meant on the interface itself .   ms