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gmp

2021.04 theme problems

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I've been using a theme since 2017 and it's worked fine until 2021.04. I went ahead and installed the new theme editor and opened my Theme in it and then saved it. This was supposed to work, but doesn't. Currently the only problem is with ProChannel showing up correctly in Inspector.  I'm just concerned that there will be more problems in the future. 

Has anyone found out a solution to this? I see many are posting new Themes and that's great. So maybe those persons can give some insight on this. 

Will there be a fix for my Theme or will I have to just scrap it and go to a new Theme? If so, i sure would be nice if the new Themes were all saved on a website where we could check them out. Instead of finding each individual post in this Forum.

 Many years ago when we were really into the Themes when they first came out around 2016 there was a website link like I described

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New features, new buttons. Latest version gives you a warning that your theme may not work. If so, you'll have to update it with new graphics or use one of the default themes.

Edited by sjoens
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What is the name of the Theme you've been using? Maybe it's already been updated by it's creator? As you've found, the method of opening a theme in the editor then saving is just a workaround to bypass the incompatibility warning and is not a good idea. Your concern there will be more problems in the future with this is valid due to the occasionally added or changed UI items when Cakewalk updates, this is why the warning was added and the best theme creators here will get their themes updated asap to reflect any changes. If I didn't create themes myself, I would either use the included 'Tungsten' theme or pick a theme from someone who always updates them asap when changes in Cakewalk make it necessary, most of us do but there are still a small number of themes available that don't get updated.

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5 hours ago, Matthew White said:

What is the name of the Theme you've been using? Maybe it's already been updated by it's creator? As you've found, the method of opening a theme in the editor then saving is just a workaround to bypass the incompatibility warning and is not a good idea. Your concern there will be more problems in the future with this is valid due to the occasionally added or changed UI items when Cakewalk updates, this is why the warning was added and the best theme creators here will get their themes updated asap to reflect any changes. If I didn't create themes myself, I would either use the included 'Tungsten' theme or pick a theme from someone who always updates them asap when changes in Cakewalk make it necessary, most of us do but there are still a small number of themes available that don't get updated.

I'm using Logical.sth, which tried to copy what it looks like when using Logic as a DAW. I made lots of changes to it. I'm not sure what's involved in me making changes to update my customized Logic theme, but I'd like to know what's involved.

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This sounds familiar.  I seem to remember a discussion about this (possibly in the 2021.04 thread?).**  If I am remembering correctly, is it safe to assume that you never repaired the theme?  Maybe I am misremembering, but I thought you had experience with tweaking themes and were going to fix the element(s).  If I had offered to help but dropped the ball, I apologize.  (I have zero experience designing themes myself, but I have made tweaks).

**ADDENDUM:  Found it! You have people in the current thread with more extensive theme experience than I have; so, I will defer to them.  But, to better understand the issue (assuming it is the same), they might want to review the previous discussion.

PS: Not sure about this, but it might help others to better help if you were to post your last working version of the theme and a link to the original theme before you tweaked it.

Edited by User 905133
to add a PS; to add a link to what might be a previous discussion of this issue; typo corrections

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3 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

This sounds familiar.  I seem to remember a discussion about this (possibly in the 2021.04 thread?).  If I am remembering correctly, is it safe to assume that you never repaired the theme?  Maybe I am misremembering, but I thought you had experience with tweaking themes and were going to fix the element(s).  If I had offered to help but dropped the ball, I apologize.  (I have zero experience designing themes myself, but I have made tweaks).

 

Yes you are remembering the post. I do have some experience with tweaking themes, but this was back in 2017. scook told me to fix some elements but was very vague about exactly what to do. 

Even opening my Theme and saving it in the new Theme Editor was a quirky process and I was trying to help this other guy through it. So you're right I haven't made any tweaks to my Theme to fix this current problem. Like you I have zero experience designing themes, but I have made tweaks. 

I hope Cakewalk can give us better guidance, especially when we start running into more serious problems than just the ProChannel Inspector problem. Every time I made tweaks to my theme I renamed it, so i have 21 versions of it. That's a lot of work to redo.

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23 hours ago, gmp said:

Yes you are remembering the post.

Thanks for the confirmation.

23 hours ago, gmp said:

I hope Cakewalk can give us better guidance, especially when we start running into more serious problems than just the ProChannel Inspector problem. Every time I made tweaks to my theme I renamed it, so i have 21 versions of it. That's a lot of work to redo.

I don't want to step into the issue of responsibility.  I was very glad when were given the list of theme element changes a number of updates ago, am very glad that the list is maintained in one spot so we have a record of the changes, and am very glad that there is now a compatibility check that has the link to the list of changes.

I also understand that finding theme elements and tweaking them can be a lot of work.

2021-06-21 N.B.:  Just to be clear: I was being polite here. At no point did I ever think think that Cakewalk had a responsibility to fix your tweaked theme.  Apologies for not saying this yesterday.

Edited by User 905133
to say what I should have said yesterday

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This overlay idea you have sounds promising. Keep us updated on your progress. Maybe Cakewalk can help you develop this, since it would be good for them to have a simpler solution to this problem

 

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27 minutes ago, User 905133 said:
  • Load a "base theme" into the editor.
  • Import an "overlay" on top of that theme.
  • Save it, preferably with a new name, perhaps with version information.

This is not significantly different from the current process

The base theme is Mercury

User themes are the overlay files. They are all changes relative to Mercury.

Tungsten is a special case. It is a factory theme. The only differences between Tungsten and a user theme are

  • the location of the theme
  • the file extension

In all other respects, Tungsten works the same as a user theme.

 

Currently one can import and export Theme Editor elements. These elements may be image files or color settings.

 

If there were an additional overlay layer, who is going to maintain that?

What is it going to contain, another collection of color settings and images?

Isn't going to require at least the same amount of work to create and maintain as the original user theme? By that I mean some one has to create the original theme. Then there are items added, removed and modified by some additional document or process.

 

The bottom line is, if one wants to use a custom theme then they need to

  • Use one that is actively maintained by some one else or
  • Maintain it themselves.

When a theme is no longer actively maintained by a 3rd party the user is left with a decision

  • Learn how to maintain the theme
  • Change to a theme that is actively maintained

Maintaining a theme is not that hard but does require learning a little bit about image editors and the theme editor. It can be time consuming if the images are significantly different from the images currently available.

If one does not have the time or is unwilling to make the investment in learning, the best course of action is use themes provided by the manufacturer, be prepared to change themes occasionally or do update the DAW.

 

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59 minutes ago, gmp said:

Yes you are remembering the post. I do have some experience with tweaking themes, but this was back in 2017. scook told me to fix some elements but was very vague about exactly what to do. 

Even opening my Theme and saving it in the new Theme Editor was a quirky process and I was trying to help this other guy through it. So you're right I haven't made any tweaks to my Theme to fix this current problem. Like you I have zero experience designing themes, but I have made tweaks. 

Your workflow is whatever works for you; change it if you like.

This post should tell you everything that needs reviewing, it's not vague at all.

Open your theme, and if necessary, delete all the custom images that have been altered for each successive release, reverting to default. That will give you a working theme. You can then update the images to match the theme.

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3 hours ago, scook said:

The base theme is Mercury

User themes are the overlay files. They are all changes relative to Mercury.

Tungsten is a special case. It is a factory theme. The only differences between Tungsten and a user theme are

  • the location of the theme
  • the file extension

In all other respects, Tungsten works the same as a user theme.

So even though you can choose any theme to base your new theme on, the "original" window will always show a Mercury element.

I think the "overlay" idea was to use  the "Import" feature to overlay a custom theme on one already open. I personally get mixed results (no pun intended) when trying this.

Edited by sjoens

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@scook and @Colin Nicholls Yup! 

4 hours ago, User 905133 said:

I don't want to step into the issue of responsibility.  I was very glad when were given the list of theme element changes a number of updates ago, am very glad that the list is maintained in one spot so we have a record of the changes, and am very glad that there is now a compatibility check that has the link to the list of changes.

I also understand that finding theme elements and tweaking them can be a lot of work.

Not much more to be said, except maybe a few little things:

4 hours ago, gmp said:

This overlay idea you have sounds promising. Keep us updated on your progress. Maybe Cakewalk can help you develop this, since it would be good for them to have a simpler solution to this problem

Just to clarify, I was trying to help you by doing the steps I described when I wrote:

4 hours ago, User 905133 said:

If I can, I will try the overlay concept with the most recent theme changes.

 So, to summarize: people with more experience creating full themes have given you expert advice.  I tried to present the steps I would take if I had a theme that wasn't being maintained by the person who created it and I wanted to update it for my own personal use.

14 hours ago, gmp said:

Will there be a fix for my Theme or will I have to just scrap it and go to a new Theme?

So, no one has come forward to fix your theme for you; others have tried to help you to fix it yourself.  Explanations and steps have been given in a number of ways, but if those explanations and steps aren't helpful to you for whatever reason (but not for a lack of help offered by forum members), then it seems prudent that you use either the factory supplied themes or one that has been updated by its designer.

 

Edited by User 905133
"or one that has been updated by their designers" --> "or one that has been updated by its designer"

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7 minutes ago, sjoens said:

So even though you can choose any theme to base your new theme on, the "original" window will always show a Mercury element.

Some people reading this thread might not realize you are making a statement of the way it is.  

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6 minutes ago, sjoens said:

So even though you can choose any theme to base your new theme on, the "original" window will always show a Mercury element.

Yes, all the original values in the theme editor always refer to the resource files (aka Mercury).

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4 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

Some people reading this thread might not realize you are making a statement of the way it is.  

Yes it was a statement. And scook's reply confirms it. :D

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28 minutes ago, sjoens said:

Yes it was a statement. And scook's reply confirms it. :D

I knew it!!!!  But just watch--someone will come along and not understand that you were making a statement of the way it is.

BTW for the benefit of others (I know you and most--if not all--of the contributors to this thread already know:

image.png.c450263a847d3bee98f5805bc933958b.png

While a picture is worth a thousand words, maybe a translation is needed: "If you have downloaded the Theme Editor, look on your computer for the pdf manual or just use the help button in the editor as scook states immediately below."

Edited by User 905133
to add a reference to the help button per scook's post

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1 minute ago, scook said:

That document is linked to the theme editor help button.

Then there is no excuse for people not reading the manual!!  

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38 minutes ago, sjoens said:

I think the "overlay" idea was to use  the "Import" feature to overlay a custom theme on one already open. I personally get mixed results (no pun intended) when trying this.

Blindly importing user theme on top of another user theme seems like a bad idea.

It is easy enough to see what elements are changed in a theme using the Theme Editor View tab and the modified filter.

And it is easy enough to copy between themes by opening multiple instances of the theme editor.

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"Then there is no excuse for people not reading the manual!! "

 

The very 1st words of the manual:

Cakewalk Theme Editor allows you to easily customize the look of Cakewalk by editing existing UI themes or
creating your own UI themes.

Edited by sjoens

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