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paulo

Freeze synth - why is this happening?

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Track 14 is the frozen synth. 

Track 15 is the same synth output to aux track and recorded in real time.

When the synth track is not frozen it plays the same as Track 15.  (ie properly)  Freeze it and it misses off the first note.

2020.09 if it matters

TIA

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This has happened to me. What I do is the zoom into the tracks & move the track till I get it where I need it. After that I lock the position.

It would of course be better if it didn't happen in the first place. Sometimes though I prefer to just take the fastest route.

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7 hours ago, John Vere said:

What is the VST so we can test this? 

It's one of the Kontakt guitar libs, but I use it all the time and this is the first time I have had this problem, so even I can't reproduce it except in this case.

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5 hours ago, rfssongs said:

This has happened to me. What I do is the zoom into the tracks & move the track till I get it where I need it. After that I lock the position.

It would of course be better if it didn't happen in the first place. Sometimes though I prefer to just take the fastest route.

Thanks for reply, but I think you're missing the point. The frozen track is in the right place as such, it's just that the first part (note) is completely missing.

Frozen tracks not being in exactly the same place as the corresponding midi track is indeed an issue I have often seen in CW, but this is not the same as that.

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3 hours ago, paulo said:

Thanks for reply, but I think you're missing the point. The frozen track is in the right place as such, it's just that the first part (note) is completely missing.

Frozen tracks not being in exactly the same place as the corresponding midi track is indeed an issue I have often seen in CW, but this is not the same as that.

Insert a dummy midi event like a silent note at the beginning.

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10 minutes ago, gustabo said:

Insert a dummy midi event like a silent note at the beginning.

Thanks for suggestion. I already tried that as I thought it might be a first note triggering issue , but it made no difference.

I did think that maybe later I will try duplicating the whole opening clip earlier on in the track and see what happens then. 

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5 hours ago, paulo said:

It's one of the Kontakt guitar libs, but I use it all the time and this is the first time I have had this problem, so even I can't reproduce it except in this case.

So what happens if you “replace” the synth with something else like Strum Session Just trying to use trouble shooting 101. Process of elimination 

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1 hour ago, John Vere said:

So what happens if you “replace” the synth with something else like Strum Session Just trying to use trouble shooting 101. Process of elimination 

 I guess I could try that if making the beginning passage not the beginning passage doesn't make a difference.

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2 hours ago, David Baay said:

Negative Time+ offset on the Instrument track?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean there. It's not offset as such, part of it is actually missing when frozen.

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UPDATE:

I still don't know why it happens, but I have figured out a way to make it not happen.

Duplicating part of the clip to the very start of the project so that the bit where I really wanted it to start was no longer the first note at first worked perfectly in the sense that not only did the bit I wanted play ok, but the clip now at the very start also rendered perfectly........

Headscratch......so.......

A note event that freezing the track won't render properly at the start of bar 25 is rendered perfectly when it's at zero along with the original note at 25.

Removed the zero clip again and the note/event  at 25 is once again not rendered properly.

Put the duplicate clip back to zero, froze again and this time the zero note/event didn't render properly and neither did the one at 25.

More headscratch........

Various trial and error tinkering later it becomes apparent that in order to stop this happening I need to first play the start of the track, then reset the now time to zero before freezing and then it works. If the now time is anywhere other than zero it doesn't render properly. 

A quick switch to an alt synth resulted in the note/event  being rendered in the correct position so it does point to a possible CW/Kontakt issue, but I use this Kontakt library all the time and other similar ones and I've never had this before. Usually I just play the midi track through when I'm done editing etc, to make sure I'm happy with it and then freeze the track there and then wherever the play head is at and the track freezes just as you'd expect. So it's a weird one.

I'll leave this open for now in case anyone knows a definitive answer as it's not really solved as such, but I know how to stop it happening now so it's more of a curiosity than anything now.

Thanks again to those who replied.

 

 

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Based on your last update, and that the issue seems Kontakt-specific, this probably isn't applicable, but FWIW:

Time+ is a control in MIDI and Instrument tracks that allows you to offset the rendering of MIDI earlier or later by a specified number of ticks to tweak the timing.

I have previously reported that Freeze will fail to process events at the beginning of a track that has a negative Time+ offset is in place. I haven't checked to see if it was ever fixed. The workaround is to destructively apply the offset by zeroing the Time+ control and sliding the MIDI earlier by the same amount before freezing.

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Is it dependent on where the Now marker is, or is the key preventative playing the start of the track before freezing?

AFAIK, the Now marker plays no part in freezing, bouncing, exporting or otherwise rendering a track. At least, I've never had to care where it was positioned when freezing. I know this because I make a habit of playing the entire song at least once before rendering anything, leaving the Now marker at the end when I do any rendering/bouncing/freezing/exporting.

The reason I've made it a habit to play the project through first is that I've experienced dropped notes in exported projects that contain many Kontakt instruments. I suspect it's because until a majority of a track has been played once, the entire library will not have been fully loaded yet due to Kontakt's memory optimization. You'd think it could just load on demand during the render - and I have no theory as to why it happens. But all I have to do is play the project one time and those missing notes come back.

 

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@paulo can you provide us with the project that has the issue?
Also something to try - replace Kontakt with some other VST synth. See if the same issue occurs with that synth.
Also you are running a very old Cakewalk build - We fixed several issues with recording aux tracks and synths in the April release. (Although that isnt directly related to this specific issue necessarily)

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Posted (edited)

What happens if you move the whole thing over a measure - then move it back after it's rendered. (Sorry if by chance  someone has already mentioned this possibility - I have not read through everything above)

Edited by rfssongs

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8 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@paulo

Also you are running a very old Cakewalk build - We fixed several issues with recording aux tracks and synths in the April release. (Although that isnt directly related to this specific issue necessarily)

First post OP says “2020.09 if it matters. “

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9 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@paulo can you provide us with the project that has the issue?
Also something to try - replace Kontakt with some other VST synth. See if the same issue occurs with that synth.
Also you are running a very old Cakewalk build - We fixed several issues with recording aux tracks and synths in the April release. (Although that isnt directly related to this specific issue necessarily)

I already suggested this and the op tried it and reported the issue did go away. So it is possibly just how this VST manages its samples and memory usage as reported by @bitflipper

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On 6/21/2021 at 8:58 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

@paulo can you provide us with the project that has the issue?
Also something to try - replace Kontakt with some other VST synth. See if the same issue occurs with that synth.
Also you are running a very old Cakewalk build - We fixed several issues with recording aux tracks and synths in the April release. (Although that isnt directly related to this specific issue necessarily)

PM sent.

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On 6/21/2021 at 8:18 PM, bitflipper said:

is the key preventative playing the start of the track before freezing?

I don't understand the question...

 

On 6/21/2021 at 8:18 PM, bitflipper said:

 I've never had to care where it was positioned when freezing. I know this because I make a habit of playing the entire song at least once before rendering anything, leaving the Now marker at the end when I do any rendering/bouncing/freezing/exporting.

Same here, I always do exactly the same. I just noticed that in this problem instance if I moved it to zero after playing it worked, but it didn't work if left at other random now times. Maybe it's just a random issue that  just happened to work ok when I set at zero but is not connected/

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