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Accessing QUADCURVE EQUALIZER Panel from the Tiny EQ

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On 6/1/2021 at 3:40 PM, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

if you can't mix with 4 EQ bands you're doing it wrong.

 

On 5/31/2021 at 12:46 PM, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

If you feel you need 8 bands plus a hi & lo pass filter then you're doing it wrong. 

"Macho macho man...." 😊

I can mix with a 4 band EQ, but I get more satisfying results by using the various modern tools I am blessed with. It's 2021. The classic productions would certainly have used these things if they had been available. As for "feeling I need," need's got nothing to do with it. I can cut a sheet of plywood with my handsaw, but I choose to use my circular saw and table saw. Am I "doing it wrong" by using whatever tools I have at my disposal?

I've often said that I could happily do a mix of a standard rock song using whatever FX come with the DAW (more happily if I also get to use the Meldaproduction freebie bundle 😁). However, I'm happier and faster with the 3rd-party FX I've acquired.

(Once I get into EDM territory, though, things become much more complicated. The FX I use become an integral part of the composition.)

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2 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Am I "doing it wrong" by using whatever tools I have at my disposal?

No you are doing it wrong by over using them and just because you can have as many bands as you want doesn't mean you should.  Each EQ band will add some phase shift and the more you stack up the worse it will sound.

If a mixer can't make a track sound decent with 4 bands of parametric EQ and  a couple of filters then I suspect there's either something wrong with the source material or that person lacks the requisite skills. 

For the record I use Pro Q-3 which can have up to 21 bands but I don't recall ever using more than the 4 bands +2 filters offered in the Pro Channel,  the main reason I use it is it has a much better GUI, M/S and Dynamic EQ .     

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16 minutes ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

you are doing it wrong by over using them

How about "if" one is overusing them? 😄 After all, you don't know how many EQ's or bands I typically use. And pretty much the only time I use more than 4 bands+hi and lo pass is when working with challenging material such as the cam footage audio from a party I attended a couple of weeks ago. The guy performing wanted me to play cowbell, and nobody else wanted to hold my camcorder for more than about 30 seconds, so I wound up with 30 minutes of the closest instrument to the mic being my danged (and dinged) cowbell. You'd be amazed how many harmonics a cowbell throws off until you try to notch the friggin' thing out.

Ideally, I'd travel back in time and set up a couple of nice condensers in an X-Y or mid-side, mic the amp, take a feed off the vocal PA, etc. and only use the camera feed as a reference. Since I seem to only be able to move forward in time, I had to rule out that approach. I wound up with 5 bands of MAutoDynamicEqualizer clamping down every time the cowbell was struck. I made my notches narrow enough that it didn't have much effect on the rest of the sounds. This is something that a 4-band knob EQ would have been inadequate for. If anyone who listens to it notices phase shifts or whatever, I'll give them the raw audio and let them re-do it.

My philosophy is that "doing it right or wrong" can only be determined by listening to the final mix. If it sounds good it is good no matter how many EQ's or bands the mix person used. I do endorse the notion that some approaches make it harder to get good-sounding results, but "doing it wrong" is too absolute for me. Before the time Daft Punk came along, audible pumping was considered a no-no, an indication that the mix engineer was overusing it. Now there are dedicated plug-ins that simulate it, along with bitcrushing plug-ins to simulate "bad" A/D D/A conversion. The term "overdrive," in the guitar world now indicates a desirable tone (most of the time), but broken down, it means "too much drive."

Also, ne of the genres I dig is industrial noise, where "doing it right" can mean the opposite of what it usually does (it's all right, but I prefer it more grating).

I share the opinion that if someone absolutely can't get listenable results with "only" 4 bands plus lo and hi they probably either lack a grasp of the basics or they're working with badly recorded material. In the case of the former, hit some YouTube and call me back. In the case of the latter, if it wouldn't result in a time travel paradox, go back and record it over after you figure out what messed up the capture the first time.

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9 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

How about "if" one is overusing them? 😄

The other guy was asking to change the PC EQ to 8 bands which is totally unnecessary ( plus filters ) if one can record and mix properly

Edited by Mark Morgon-Shaw
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You two that argue so about four bands sn eight bands - i bet: if both should get the same project to work on one will definitely use more thsn 4 bands because he picks more resonance than tbe other one. 

Your environment play's a huge role in this. There no right or wrong EQ. What works for you - works in your workflow. 

Even the top engineers never uses only 4 EQ bands | or | only one EQ on a guitar or vocals - depending on the song and vocalist even with the most perfect take ever. 

Piano for me is a great example in EDM. because EDM and Piano are so dynamic in their own ways - I hardly boost (depending on other elements around it) the piano. I often ending up doing a 10/12 band narrow cut to remove sharp resonance my "MONITORS" exposes to my in my "environment" to get tge piano sit perfectly its space without boosting. 

Same with vocals. Because certain recording environment are so well treated and its location its situated in - you sometimes end up with the mixing engineer just doing cuts abd not boosting any frequencies. All because of the feel of the song. If I want and "AIRY VOCAL"  im just gona boost the highs and do narrow cuts in the mid and lower mid region. That normally gets me 6 bands excluding hi and low pass. 

Mixingis all about personal preferences. Inserting 3 EQ's is not wrong. Using 8 band not wrong. Mixing with only 4 bands not wrong at all. It all depends on genre and feel. 

If you want that Beatles feel . . . by all means use 3 Bands. 

Another Example that might not interest you. Take HIPHOP rappers most vocals are recorded in their bedrooms or open living rooms. Known hiphip producers here on uses two compressors (one with character and other linear, ) saturation and of course auto-tune sitting 1st in the chain. That alone gives a clear vocal with NO EQ. 

So you can stop arguing about 4 or 8 bands. I bet you in METAL you gona use more than 8 bands. Whether you use two EQ's with 4bands in the chain to get the sound you want - that's more than 4 bands you're using. 

Using the "hi pass and low pass filters" guess what? that's two extra bands you're using with your 4 bands. 

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6 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

The other guy was asking to change the PC EQ to 8 bands which is totally unnecessary

Yeah, not something I'd ever make use of. When I do need extra bands, that's what things like your Fabfilter and my Meldaproduction EQ's are for. It's too specialized a use case to be concerned about having it built in to CbB, IMO. There is a plethora of freeware EQ's that will do it. The Quadcurve is a console EQ at heart, which traditionally aren't used for fancy surgery. You use it to notch out the honk(s) or add a bit of sweetness. It happens to have that fancy popout display with the analyzer, but it's still a console EQ. Adding extra bands would clutter up the non-expanded view.

(This reminds me, I need to remember the ReaPlugs EQ's when I'm doing corrective surgery on unfortunate camcorder footage. They do things like linear phase and allow for unlimited bands. ReaFir is crazy good for noise reduction.)

I'd much rather see the LP EQ's make an appearance, either included or for sale. Not too many linear phase multibands out there, and I never owned a SPlat license. There has been mention of makeovers of the Sonitae, updating UI's and going to VST format. That would be nice, too. I especially like the compressor, it does a passable dbx 160 imitation. The bakerzoids don't seem to be interested in plug-ins at this point.

Edited by Starship Krupa
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6 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

I often ending up doing a 10/12 band narrow cut to remove sharp resonance my "MONITORS" exposes to my in my "environment" to get the piano sit perfectly its space without boosting. 

That's nuts, if it needed that much EQ to make it sit I'd use a different piano.

 

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