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musikman1

Best Hardware for a PC Upgrade? - Help pls

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Ok Will, thanks, I watched the video. Seems pretty simple to connect. I do have a couple of questions though....

I assume instead of using my Behringer mixer, I'll be using the audio outputs of my audio interface to send the record and playback signals to my studio monitors, and control playback volume with the A/I

That being the case, when I get to a scenario where let's say I already have recorded a drum and a bass track in CWbB, now I want to play those tracks while I record a new keyboard synth track.  Using the setup described in the video with my A/I connected to my mixer, will I be able to control the playback volume of the drum/bass playback separately from the volume of the new keyboard track that I am recording live?  This is an issue that I have now with just using the Behringer alone because if I use the control room/headphone volume knob on the Behringer, both are sent to that knob, so it raises or lowers both my playback and record volumes simultaneously.  So if I want the drums and bass to be quieter so I can hear the keyboard part I'm playing better, the only way to do it is to use my volume controls within CWbB.  It's one of the things that prompted me to change and go with a USB mixer that has multi USB so I can send the playback tracks to any channel and therefore control the levels separately.

Edited by musikman1

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If I can manage it, I may end up upgrading my processor and motherboard along with the SSDs and RAM, otherwise I'll stick to just SSDs and RAM.  My friend was recommending Ryzen AMD 5600X 8 core 16 thread processor.  He said it's very fast and outperforms some of the Intel i series processors.  I don't know much about the technical end but I know he is very good at what he does, he's been a business computer tech for years,  so I trust his recommendations. The customer reviews on that processor are mostly very good from what I can see. 

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4 hours ago, musikman1 said:

If I can manage it, I may end up upgrading my processor and motherboard along with the SSDs and RAM, otherwise I'll stick to just SSDs and RAM.  My friend was recommending Ryzen AMD 5600X 8 core 16 thread processor.  He said it's very fast and outperforms some of the Intel i series processors.  I don't know much about the technical end but I know he is very good at what he does, he's been a business computer tech for years,  so I trust his recommendations. The customer reviews on that processor are mostly very good from what I can see. 

Only thing Intel CPUs are still king is single core performance, which is becoming less and less important nowadays as we only recently started to get SKUs that are stable enough to reach 4GHz without requiring excessive amounts of energy or cooling.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/4/2021 at 11:15 PM, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

we only recently started to get SKUs that are stable enough to reach 4GHz without requiring excessive amounts of energy or cooling.

Was just looking at the Ryzen 8 core/16 thread, up around $4-500, the 6 core/12 thread around $3-350.  I'd like to go 8 if I can get it and still keep the total upgrade budget manageable .

 

Edited by musikman1

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I'm not big on computer terminology, but I've noticed that some people will call a 6 core - 12 thread processor just "12 core", and an 8 core - 16 thread processor just "16 core".  Am I to assume that for example a 6 core - 12 thread is really a 12 core?

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3 hours ago, musikman1 said:

I'm not big on computer terminology, but I've noticed that some people will call a 6 core - 12 thread processor just "12 core", and an 8 core - 16 thread processor just "16 core".  Am I to assume that for example a 6 core - 12 thread is really a 12 core?

Watch out for people who get lazy with terminology in the world of computers! It's deadly.

The Intel Hyperthreading and AMD Symmetrical Multithreading are both technologies that provide two threads per physical computer core;  hence the 6/12 or 8/16, etc. terminology.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MediaGary said:

Watch out for people who get lazy with terminology in the world of computers! It's deadly.

The Intel Hyperthreading and AMD Symmetrical Multithreading are both technologies that provide two threads per physical computer core;  hence the 6/12 or 8/16, etc. terminology.

I see, well when it comes to certain computer parts, nothing is crystal clear to me anyway. I do have a reliable computer tech who does my upgrades, so I trust him. 

There are two choices I'm looking at, and I'm wondering if there would really be much difference between these two processors.  I'm just running Cakewalk, but I do use some CPU heavy plugins, and mostly audio tracks as opposed to MIDI tracks. Sometimes I use Sony Vegas to do some small video projects as well. 

5600x...  https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5600X-12-Thread-Processor/dp/B08166SLDF/ref=asc_df_B08166SLDF/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=475750632217&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18174886754171346090&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002211&hvtargid=pla-1038719530487&psc=1

5800x... https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5800X-16-Thread-Processor/dp/B0815XFSGK/ref=pd_rhf_cr_s_pd_crcd_5?pd_rd_w=BkGaU&pf_rd_p=8019ba47-0a12-4976-b76b-5c932d60db6f&pf_rd_r=SSP9GZEH6HN6629QG198&pd_rd_r=4d79c963-35eb-4b1f-b459-4a770dcbfb13&pd_rd_wg=HHYQS&pd_rd_i=B0815XFSGK&psc=1

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong,..... so I'm guessing that pairing the less expensive 5600x 6core/12thread with 32GB RAM and a fast SSD drive would be sufficient for what I'm doing in CW?  Or is it gonna be that much difference in performance/speed to go with the more expensive 5800x 8core/16thread? 

See, right now I have a 3core/6thread (which I originally thought was just a "6 core" (there's that terminology again!), and CWbB performance meter is showing 6 separate core measurements for it, so I assume the CWbB meter will show 12 for the 5600x and 16 for the 5800x.  I could actually keep the processor I have but I'm upgrading everything else, so I may as well follow suit with the processor as well, rather than doing it separately later on.

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited by musikman1

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Posted (edited)
On 3/13/2021 at 4:49 PM, musikman1 said:

I see, well when it comes to certain computer parts, nothing is crystal clear to me anyway. I do have a reliable computer tech who does my upgrades, so I trust him. 

There are two choices I'm looking at, and I'm wondering if there would really be much difference between these two processors.  I'm just running Cakewalk, but I do use some CPU heavy plugins, and mostly audio tracks as opposed to MIDI tracks. Sometimes I use Sony Vegas to do some small video projects as well. 

5600x...  https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5600X-12-Thread-Processor/dp/B08166SLDF/ref=asc_df_B08166SLDF/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=475750632217&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18174886754171346090&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002211&hvtargid=pla-1038719530487&psc=1

5800x... https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5800X-16-Thread-Processor/dp/B0815XFSGK/ref=pd_rhf_cr_s_pd_crcd_5?pd_rd_w=BkGaU&pf_rd_p=8019ba47-0a12-4976-b76b-5c932d60db6f&pf_rd_r=SSP9GZEH6HN6629QG198&pd_rd_r=4d79c963-35eb-4b1f-b459-4a770dcbfb13&pd_rd_wg=HHYQS&pd_rd_i=B0815XFSGK&psc=1

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong,..... so I'm guessing that pairing the less expensive 5600x 6core/12thread with 32GB RAM and a fast SSD drive would be sufficient for what I'm doing in CW?  Or is it gonna be that much difference in performance/speed to go with the more expensive 5800x 8core/16thread? 

See, right now I have a 3core/6thread (which I originally thought was just a "6 core" (there's that terminology again!), and CWbB performance meter is showing 6 separate core measurements for it, so I assume the CWbB meter will show 12 for the 5600x and 16 for the 5800x.  I could actually keep the processor I have but I'm upgrading everything else, so I may as well follow suit with the processor as well, rather than doing it separately later on.

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

The 8 cores will give you more headroom (more plugins)vs the 6 cores but wont make things go actually faster  (mixing down audio), you still can only go as fast as each core is limited to, thats why checking single threaded score is still relevant but probably the most important in judging a cpu, and in that case the 5600x and 5800x are about even in single threaded score, so no performance advantage in everday use but more headroom to do things,  and why you should consider the 11700 which is the same as the 5800x but cheaper..   Personally id go intel just because ive read too many issues that involved AMD and stability which i dont want to deal with but im sure isnt the norm,.  Ithink AMD handles memory differently so I would be curiouse to see how plugin latency which in part relys on memory speed to lower buffers performs on AMD.  But without testing we'll never know and why with intel you know nothing funky is going to happen and with the prices become a better choice imo.  With that said your 3core cpu is most likely light years behind in single threaded perfromancethat any upgrade in the cpu to a modern one would be a nice upgrade.  The x5600 being a good choice because its up there on the single threaded side, x3700 being a worse choice since its low on the scale, a 11700 being a better overall choice i believe.

Edited by mike2mars

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On 3/4/2021 at 11:15 PM, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Only thing Intel CPUs are still king is single core performance, which is becoming less and less important nowadays

Single core performance is still extremely important... especially if you're pushing the limits of ultra low latency performance.

ie: Let's say you have a Thunderbolt audio interface that yields 1ms total round-trip latency at 96k using a 32-sample ASIO buffer size.

With those settings, you can play/monitor thru plugins like Helix Native with 1ms round-trip latency (equal to or better than the Hardware).

At those settings (96k/32-sample ASIO buffer), the machine has ~half a millisecond to process the next ASIO buffer and get it in cue for playback.

This is not something that lends itself to being heavily multi-threaded (spread across multiple cores).

If anything interrupts this process, you'll hear glitches.

 

If you try doing to above with the Threadripper 3970x (~$2000), you'll hear glitches.

The 10900k (~$500) can do the above with zero glitches.

 

The new 11900k shows performance improvement in many benchmarks (vs the 10900k), but there were some changes in architecture that make it more latent.

If you're pushing the limits at ultra low latency (32-sample ASIO buffer size or smaller), the 11900k is a step backward.

 

The newer Ryzen Vermeer series (5xxx series) has greatly improved low latency performance.

The 5950x (~$800) can run the above example glitch-free.

Unlike Threadripper (280w TDP), the 5950x is a much more manageable (quiet) 105w TDP.

 

 

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On 2/14/2021 at 4:12 AM, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

The interesting thing about the AMD FX CPUs is that they aged well, unlike their Intel counterparts. You can still get somewhat of a decent performance with a FX8370 or 8350 with sufficiently fast RAM and a ssd.

Definitely!  I'm FINALLY replacing mine after many years of use and, mostly, because a dying power supply damaged many of the components.

It was an AMD FX-6300 Six-Core Processor at 3.5 GHz with 16 GB of RAM.

Jim's building me (right now!) a new box with an i9-10900k CPU (ten cores / 20 processing threads) at 5.3GHz.  I'm starting with 64 GB of RAM, but with only two sticks so I can easily go to 128 GB if ever wanted (I need the machine for a database number-crunching project I'm currently programming and that WILL use the RAM!).  Down the road, I expect this box to become my new DAW and I'll probably get AMD for a gaming computer (once I have the time to actually game again - lol).

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Thanks for the computer lessons guys, much appreciated! I did end up going with the x5600 - 6core-12thread, but I don't have the computer back yet, so I can't say anything about how it performs until then.  I did talk to my tech who is doing the job, and he said he also has a x5600 in one of his PCs and he describes it as "a beast", he obviously likes the performance.  I know that performance when it comes to music production is different in many ways compared to just regular computer tasking, so we'll see how it goes when I get it back. I'm sure that the SSD drives I had him install will make a huge difference too, they're rated at 3400mbps I believe, and that's probably 5 times or more faster transfer rate than my old spinning WD HDD.   Plus a bump in RAM from 8GB to 32GB should be an improvement as well.

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congrats, I am jealous. 

true, there was some good advice in this thread

my computer is going on 7 years old, but keeps pace for what I DO

You probably know this. but I learned the hard way, a good filing system is very condusive to efficient workflow

let us know how it rolls

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Consider more RAM on what you have. Freeze your tracks keep your overhead down.

Sounds like your system is newer than mine.

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