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Staff view (score view)


Frank D. Baere

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What I'd like to see in the staff view would be easy adjustment of note velocity, e.g. using the mouse wheel, perhaps with a modifier key (shift, ctrl, alt). The note length would be nice to also have modifiable with the wheel, using adding or substracting the current selected note length or such while applied. I don't like to select a note and then opening a dialog, using it and dismissing it. The event inspector is a bit better, but I really think the mouse wheel could be utilized more here.

  • Shift + mouse wheel: adjust pointed note or selection note velocity up or down. While doing this, at least the altered velocities would be rendered next to the notes.
  • Alt + mouse wheel: shorten or lengthen the pointed note or the notes in the selection by a selectable length (the current selected note length?)

The right mouse function on a single note or a selection of notes could also be something else than bringing up the property dialog, which I think only affects the clicked note, even though you have a selection.

As a Windows developer myself, I'd say these are not very hard to implement - unless the staff view code is a hopeless mess of spaghetti and barbed wire with numerous booby-traps-in-code. 😁

Just my two cents...

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2 hours ago, Peter C said:

Just putting my oar in......you know what I like about Cakewalk's score editor? It's dead easy to use and for composition/arranging it does what I want it do, i.e. put notes on score on screen and on that old-fashioned stuff they call paper. And it has worked seamlessly within the program for me.  I found Dorico too complicated and frustrating, the Cubase score editor I found a nightmare, didn't even integrate with Cubase properly, and far too complex for what I needed.  Just saying.

I also tried samplitude, and found its score editor mystifying. The original developers of Cakewalk got it right, and they did it two decades ago. It's very easy to use, and very powerful.

As for the code (mentioned in the next post), the fact that it is so old may be why they are making only incremental improvements. 

I made keyboard shortcuts for velocity, length and transposition. I hit V and the velocity changer comes up. I can do a single note or a series of them, whatever I select. same for length  and transposition. Simple, effective.

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On 2/9/2021 at 10:28 AM, pbognar said:

Funny, with DAWs, it seems that there is no DAW which features  all 3 of these features:  

  • Notation editing
  • Clip launching
  • Chord track

There must be some sort of secret agreement between members of the DAW creator community 😄

I think there is one or two 😉

Not sure how any computer literate person can find Samplitude's Score Editor "Mystifying."  It's actually not that jam packed.  It just has a much better engine for interpreting and displaying the MIDI than Cakewalk does.  It's pretty easy to use.

Cubase's Score Editor is far more mystifying than Samplitude's, and a lot of that has to do with how much more functionality Steinberg has packed into that editor.  Feature Richness has a tendency to do that.

Cakewalk's Score Editor is not unintuitiive or hard to use.  It's just bad.

Edited by Maestro
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12 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

Not sure how any computer literate person can find Samplitude's Score Editor "Mystifying."  It's actually not that jam packed.  It just has a much better engine for interpreting and displaying the MIDI than Cakewalk does.  It's pretty easy to use.

Cakewalk's Score Editor is not unintuitiive or hard to use.  It's just bad.

Maybe I'm confusing Samplitude's score view with another I tried. The one I was thinking of only let you look at one instrument at a time. If I was mistaken in this, and Samplitude does allow you to look at multiple instruments in the same view, then I retract my statement.

But I maintain that, as an editing tool - not as true notation - Cakewalk's staff view is the best that I have used. Notice I said "that I have used." If you or anyone else finds a different DAW has a staff view that works better for you, then that is best for you. Your statement that Cakewalk's staff view is bad really only has validity for you. 

Peace.

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On 2/17/2021 at 11:23 PM, Maestro said:

I think there is one or two 😉

 

Hmm...  I can't think of any...

LP - no chord track

S1 - no clip launching

CW - no chord track

LV - no notation editing, no chord track

CB - no clip launching

PT - no chord track, no clip launching

RE - no chord track (native), no clip launching (native)

MC - no chord track

BW - no notation editing

SP - no chord track, no clip launching

FL - no chord track, no notation editing

 

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On 2/18/2021 at 12:32 PM, mdiemer said:

Your statement that Cakewalk's staff view is bad really only has validity for you. 

Peace.

Not quite.  It's just that most people who think so aren't really going to bother to both:

  • Continue to use it, and
  • Come here to say so.

They will use something else and never say anything.  Most people who ditch/switch DAWs do not advertise it, or why.  This is what makes it so hard to develop in a direction for user retention.  Most feedback come from the reliable users, not those that are more fickle.  Developing for a shrinking base of committed users doesn't grow a problem.  This is the issue SONAR ran into.

If you looked beyond these walls, you'd see that I am not alone.

How can SONAR's notation editor, as an editing tool, be the best you've ever used when it can't display the MIDI properly, meaning it also cannot edit the MIDI properly?  Can you create a grace note in the Sonar Staff View/Editor?  I can in Samplitude, and I'm pretty sure the code in their Score Editor is about as old as SONAR's - and even if it isn't, it probably hasn't been touched since it was put in there, cause "MAGIX."  Have you even touched Studio One 5's new Score Editor?

The score editor needs tons of improvements in this product.

The articulation maps are great.  Probably the closest any product has gotten to Cubase Expression Maps, thus far (Studio One's implementation is anemic), but the score editor is really bottom-barrel.

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Maestro, I can in  a way, create a grace note in staff view. It won't look like one or display properly, but it will play correctly. What I do is put in a note as close to the value I want as I can get, them move it ahead as far as I need to, and then adjust its length. I can make the adjustments in staff view by right-clicking the note and then changing the start time and duration. Or I can switch to Event List and do it there. I have shortcuts for both views (S and E) so it's quick and easy to go back and forth between them. I also made shortcuts for Length, Velocity and Transposition, so I can do all those things in staff view as well.

Sure, these are workarounds necessitated by staff views' shortcomings, but such is true of all DAWS. The bottom line is that I have adapted well to Cakewalk. Other folks have different needs, styles, etc and naturally find Cakewalk's staff view not very good. It all comes down to the user. Staff View is not intrinsically good or bad. It is what it is. some people use it and like it, others do not. I'm not sure what the argument is here. I like staff view, it works for me. You don't like staff view, it doesn't work for you. All good as far as I can see.

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