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Matthew

Adictive drums / Keyboard issue (SOLVED)

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Sonar X3

Micro Korg Keyboard / Synth

 

Newb Question,

2 Part Question.

I have my Keyboard hooked up via Midi and 1/4 inch jacks. (midi) is used for controlling vst within sonar while (1/4 jacks) are used to utilize the sounds within my synthesizer if so desired.

 

( First Question ) , The problem is when I'm using the sounds in my synthesizer to record audio data for some reason I can hear drum sounds from addictive drums as I hit the keys. Ive tried  selecting  a different track so addictive drums inst being triggered but to no avail. I can hear both the synthesizer audio data accompanied by the drum sounds. I cant seem to figure that out yet.

(Second question) , I will mute the drums so I don't hear any drum sounds. This way I can hear the audio data from my synth without hearing the drums played over it. However, Ive noticed that after I lay down some tracks on a separate audio track with my synth and listen back to the mix, the Kick in addictive drums is gone. Just the Kick and no other drum sounds. Ive tested this out and it happens every time. When I pull up addictive drums in piano roll view I still see the midi notation of the kick, However I don't hear any sound from those notations anymore. It is so odd and I cant wrap my head around this. If anyone can Help I will be so Grateful.

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Hi and welcome to the forum,

This kind of sounds like an Input Echo issue to me. If your recording the Audio from your Keyboard, it should be going to an Audio track (no rocket science there) And Input echo should be off on your midi tracks or it has the potential to trigger midi notes. Turning off Input Echo in the midi tracks might even solve part of your "question #2".

Any other midi devices hooked up ? Controller, Control surface, exc ?

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Matthew: ( First Question ) , The problem is when I'm using the sounds in my synthesizer to record audio data for some reason I can hear drum sounds from addictive drums as I hit the keys. Ive tried  selecting  a different track so addictive drums inst being triggered but to no avail. I can hear both the synthesizer audio data accompanied by the drum sounds. I cant seem to figure that out yet

It's propably be the Input Echo suggested by Chuck above.

It's not 100% clear to me:  Are you hearing a previously recorded track with Addictive drums or the respective keystrokes you hit recording the synth audio? I'm reading your post so, that you hear the actual keystrokes you're hitting  real time(..."as I hit the keys").

As you have both MIDI and audio cables connected,  it could be worthwhile testing changing the MIDI channel of either your synth or AD, to make sure the synth doesn't send MIDI to tracks you don't want to.  The vanishing kick drum sound is a bit mysterious thing, but it might be possible it's due to some weird MIDI messages sent accidentally in the process, as both audio and MIDI are connected.  Are the velocity and volume levels of the silent kick drum MIDI notes what they should be? A look at the Event List should reveal any unintended messages.

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I turned off input echo on all midi devices and it  did not fix the  problem.  I even Deleted all kicks and replaced with new midi notations and still no resolution.  Let me be more clear.

I recorded guitars (all audio tracks). I recorded bass (all audio tracks). Then  I added addictive drums and drew in my drums free hand.  After that I wanted to lay down synth so I decided to use my mini korg and that's when these issues started to happen. As I hit a key on my korg I heard the drums being played behind (in real time) over my audio data. Thats when The kick drum disappeared when I hit playback to listen to the song.

The velocity in piano roll for the kicks are where they are supposed to be.

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Go to your Addictive Drums track and select MIDI Input source to NONE or a different source than your synth.

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SJoens,

I did this as well and the problem still exist. Anyone else have any Idea?

 

I don't want to disconnect my Midi keyboard connections every time I want to use the Keyboard for (Out the box) Sounds.

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First things first.

Unplug the MIDI cable(s) from your PC.

Do your audio synth recording.

Listen to mix.

Problem persist?  Then you have somehow recorded drums into your tracks, and it has nothing to do with your keyboard.

No drums like you would expect?  Then good.

So now you're left with whether or not it's important to you to have your MIDI cable(s) connected while you record audio synth.
It bothers you that you should be able to keep the cable connected without issue, but, but (and I have this problem with my Kurzweil PC3K) the MIDI echo comes back into my Kurzweil and wreaks havoc to sounds inside my Kurzweil.  In my case, though, it's a USB midi cable.

Trying to isolate these types of things can be a real zinger.

Best solution is to disconnect the MIDI cable entirely while recording audio synth.

Edited by Toddskins
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On 3/25/2019 at 9:43 PM, sjoens said:

Go to your Addictive Drums track and select MIDI Input source to NONE or a different source than your synth.

Does "NONE" actually work now? "NONE" always used to mean "OMNI," which is exactly what the OP doesn't want. By default, Cakewalk takes all MIDI channel inputs to a track, so setting the channel to something the keyboard is not sending "should" work.

Also be aware there is a preference setting to "Auto Echo current track" so if that is enabled and the Addictive Drums track is selected, it will auto-echo. I leave this off by default so that I manually echo tracks and know what is going on.

Aside (just in case) - If a VSTi is enabled for "MIDI throughput" you can send it MIDI notes, and they will pass through into other VSTis listening to the same channel (or OMNI). This may also be an issue when using another VSTi... with that enabled, AD could also be getting MIDI notes even though you are not expecting it to.

Just for clarification, it seems the OP is recording audio (not MIDI) from the Micro Korg? If true... worst case is you can go into preferences and disable MIDI input during that part, but the above "should" work.

I am not sure what is going on with the "second question" in the OP, I have never seen that one before, but it is certainly odd... is the kick on its own MIDI track? and if so, is the channel the same as the others? If the MIDI is all in one track, it could be a mapping issue in AD, but not sure how that would get triggered. It seems that if question one gets resolved, that there is no need to mute AD.

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You're right. I actually have an unused MIDI port and label it NONE so it's an actual option.

I would also try this in a new project to see if the project has gone roague on you.

A few pics of the OPs setup & connections might help too.

Edited by sjoens

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37 minutes ago, mettelus said:

Does "NONE" actually work now? "NONE" always used to mean "OMNI,"

None means what it always has, no MIDI input selected. The problem some run into is the interaction of input selection and input echo.

When an instrument/MIDI track input is set to None and input echo is enabled the DAW, in order to echo something, changes the input to All Inputs > MIDI Omni. Once the input is changed it will not automatically revert back to NONE when input echo is turned off. This is why some prefer to take complete manual control of input echo by disabling Always Echo Current MIDI Track in preferences.

43 minutes ago, mettelus said:

If a VSTi is enabled for "MIDI throughput" you can send it MIDI notes, and they will pass through into other VSTis listening to the same channel (or OMNI). This may also be an issue when using another VSTi... with that enabled, AD could also be getting MIDI notes even though you are not expecting it to.

By default any synth capable of sending MIDI data has "Enable MIDI Output" turned on.

There are a few places where the "Enable Synth Output" option may be viewed and edited:

  • The insert synth options dialog
  • The VST2/3 drop down in the standard header (see the "To enable VST MIDI input and output ports" section near the bottom of the page
  • And in the synth rack where the option is available from the synth settings menu and the context menu for each synth found by right-clicking the synth in the rack.

WRT the second issue. By default, the PRV displays all notes whether they have been muted or not. There is an option to hide muted clips in the PRV View menu but muted take lanes will appear regardless of this option. The fact the the drum MIDI data was muted at some point suggest that the kick may still be muted which may not be obvious by inspecting the data in the PRV.

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Dumb question but does the the Korg have drum sounds on board??  Is that what your hearing? 

In other words are you sure the Kick sound is coming from Sonar or from the Korg?

Are you sending midi data to the Korg or playing it Live?

 

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Ok guys I figured out both issues !

As multiple people mentioned The "Auto Echo current track" was enabled. So I disabled and tested it again to see if the problem would persist. It didn't! Which is the cause of Question Number 1.  Awesome! and thanks to all that suggested it. I will now on Disable that on all of my Templates so I can control the process of that flow and avoid any further complications.

 

As for Question Number 2. Well it seems as though for whatever reason when the keyboard was triggering AD  it lowered the Velocity hit within AD (Not PRV) Which is why everything in PRV looked peachy. As soon as I moved the velocity fader in AD the kick came back and everything was right as rain.

 

Honestly, if it wasn't for this forum, and the previous Forum through Cakewalk I would be lost. Thanks again for solid troubleshooting and taking your time out of all your days to assist.

On a side note. Though I am not yet a master of this program yet. I am a very experienced musician and would love to hear any music from you guys if you wanna send it my way. Im always looking for new sound and love critiquing if so desired.  

Much Love, God Bless  -Vokalzz

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On 3/24/2019 at 10:34 PM, Matthew said:

Sonar X3

Now that you've sorted your MIDI issue, I must ask why you're using such antique DAW software. Is it a retro thing to go with the MicroKORG?

You're aware that there's a successor that runs faster, crashes less, uses fewer resources, and has more features that you can get for free, right? It works just like Sonar X3 and if you install it you can even still use X3 if you miss it (one thing, you don't want to delete the Reference Manual that came with X3).

CWAF!

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I use all versions of Sonar for various reasons and have found CbB to hiccup, fart, crash, and burn just as easily as the rest of the gang. :P

Edited by sjoens
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thats a good point I was mentioning to ask.

I was told (by a friend) that If I upgrade to platinum I would lose alot of my vsts.  I wouldnt be able to keep everything so ive been hesitant about it. I would love to upgrade but wasnt there a monthly subscription for platinum? I know cakewalk was bought out by bandlab but I dont know whats the status of all the varibles at the moment. Maybe you can enlighten me on the process and how everything would work.

It sure would be nice to upgrade without any loss  or conflicts.

 

Thanks again! Starship Krupa !

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Oh man, you are in for a treat.

Cakewalk by BandLab is designed to install right alongside your existing Sonar installation without interfering.

As long as your system is 64-bit Windows 7 or later, you're good to go.

Once you have it installed, you should be able to use any VST in CbB that you use in Sonar. The only issue that I've seen people have, and it's unusual, is that sometimes they need to go into Preferences in Cakewalk and add a folder or two to get all of them to show up.

Your friend had it wrong, BTW. I didn't personally do it, but Sonar Platinum was the next revision of the product after X3, and I've not heard of anyone losing VST's in the upgrade. The old forum, which goes back at least a dozen years, is still readable at cakewalk.com. There are people here who have gone from Sonar 8.5 to CbB and are using the VST's that were included with 8.5.

Give it a try, as I said, there's little risk, it drops into its own folder and doesn't mess with your Sonar installation.

If you do run into any snags, there are other CWAF! people on here who will help you straighten things out, as well as the fact that Cakewalk has a support staff that answers users' support requests.

And yes, I believe one of Sonar Platinum's licensing models included a monthly fee. There was also a pay once lifetime model. Neither of those has anything to do with Cakewalk by BandLab, which has a free license. The only requirements are that you create an account, which you've already done, install the BandLab Assistant, use it to install the program, and then after that you need to renew it at least once every 6 months by connecting to the internet so that the BandLab assistant can ping their licensing server, and that's it.

BandLab updates Cakewalk about every 1-2 months, usually a nice feature or two and a fistful of bugfixes. It's becoming easier to transfer projects back and forth to BandLab's website.

Edited by Starship Krupa
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On 3/31/2019 at 7:56 PM, sjoens said:

I use all versions of Sonar for various reasons and have found CbB to hiccup, fart, crash, and burn just as easily as the rest of the gang. :P

I know you've been around for a while, so you know they've been working the code hard to take care of those issues. I'm relatively new and I saw vast improvements in stability and speed just in the first 6 months of the BandLab stewardship.

If you're getting the same kind of crashy behavior with all those different versions on your system, have you totally exhausted configuration issues? 'cause that is a drag.

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CbB may not crash as much or for the same reasons as the X series did but it seems to be catching up for me. I have one system that runs everything I do so it's bound to have more mishaps than a CbB exclusive system running minimal resources. Without the latter, you'll never be able to completely isolate particular issues.

In my case, X1 seems to be the most stable version presently and have gone back to using it more frequently. It works best with my new controller and even opens while IE11 is open, something CbB will not do. If I turn on the controller after CbB is running, CbB POOFS! off the screen as if it was never there. I can then reopen it without incident. :S

It's also possible that having every X version installed could be affecting the issues.

Edited by sjoens
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