MIDI SysEx problem

[rashidDrums]

Hi, I have a midi file (attached) that is playing incorrectly in SONAR Platinum 23.10 and all previous versions too. It has some SysEx data dedicated to Roland SC-55 synthesizer (I use software Roland Sound Canvas VA synth). SONAR asks me on opening "This file contains System Exclusive data designed to be sent automatically to your MIDI gear. Do you want to send it now?". I choose OK and then play - but midi sounds wrong! The same midi file on the same PC on the same synth being played by WMP or Van Basco's Karaoke MIDI player or any other (non Cakewalk) player plays good, with instrument patches altered as intended.

Is it bug?

QFG2GS.MID

[rashidDrums]

I forgot to add that I use "Roland Sound Canvas VA" (SCVA) soft synth via loopMIDI driver (https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html). So it is seen to SONAR as a real hardware (MIDI Out ), i am not using it like VSTi internally.

First I thought that it is may be a bug in loopMIDI. but, as I said,  other apps play it well. Problem only in SONAR.

[rashidDrums]

This bug exists on a latest Cakewalk too. (2021.01 build 085)

[JoseC]

Open the Sysex View and check that the sysex data are being sent to the right port .

[msmcleod]

CbB does not support sending Sysex to VSTi's.

[JoseC]

1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

CbB does not support sending Sysex to VSTi's.

He is using a virtual MIDI cable

[rashidDrums]

In attempts to discover nature of this problem I went down to Cakewalk Pro Audio! And here it is:

 

Current Cakewalk 2021.01 build 085 - exists

SONAR Platinum  v23.10 - exists

SONAR 1.3.1 (build 2001.10) - exists

Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.03 (build 2000.03) - exists

Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.00 (build 1999) - TA-DA!! Works OK!

Cakewalk Pro Audio 8.00 (build 1998) - Works OK too!

 

Somewhere between Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.00 and 9.03 were introduced changes that maybe broke SysEx data sending in some scenarios and still present to day. How could possible be so? Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get 9.01 and 9.02 stand-alone patches, otherwise I would investigate precisely when this happened.

 

Any other current midi software players and DAWs work as expected and do not expose this problem. These includes Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.00 and earlier, Windows Media Player, vanBasco's Karaoke Player, Sekaiju (open source MIDI sequencer) and even just hitting F3 in Total Commander.

[rashidDrums]

UPDATE:

 

Talked to one guy, he said (quote):

Quote

It's about how to read banks)

 

There are two standards:

Instruments 0-127 in bank 0

Instruments 0-127 in bank 1

Instruments 0-127 in bank 2

Instruments 0-127 in bank 3

Instruments 0-127 in bank 4

 

And there is such a standard:

Instruments 0-127 in bank 0 

Instruments 0-127 in bank 128 

Instruments 0-127 in bank 256 

Instruments 0-127 in bank 384 

Instruments 0-127 in bank 512

 

And modern cakes work according to the second standard) so this is the difference)

 

honestly I did not understand it... comments?

[JoseC]

Did you check the output port in the Sysex View? I use Sysex since always and it works fine. If the setup file that you are sending is the same as always, it should work as always. The most obvious reason for it not to work is that you are sending it out of the wrong port. All that about "standards" makes no sense. Cakewalk just sends the sysex info, doesn´t care about its content. Patch/Bank change formats are a whole different kind of midi message that has nothing to do with sysex.

 

 

[rashidDrums]

I checked Sysx view but it gave me nothing. Both in 9.00 and 9.03 they look exactly the same:

9.00

 

 

9.03

 

[rashidDrums]

 

[bvideo]

The sysex shown is GS reset, meaning all patches are to be set to default? Then it must be the patches embedded per track in the file that are not being set properly. The post about reading banks maybe has a big clue. The instrument definition for the chosen synth has bank numbers and also an option that chooses how the bank number should be interpreted ("bank select method"). Perhaps the older versions of Pro Audio don't use that.

From the help pdf:

Quote

Normal               Take the value of Controller 0, multiply it by 128, and add the value of Controller 32 to derive the bank number.

Note: A synthesizer manufacturer may refer to Controller 0 as the MSB (Most Significant Byte) and to Controller 32 as the LSB (Least Significant Byte).

Controller 0 only    The value of Controller 0 is the bank number.

Controller 32 only      The value of Controller 32 is the bank number.

So check the bank numbers in your instrument definition file; also if it has "Controller 0 only", change it to one of the others & vice versa.

Quote

To change the Bank Select method

1. Highlight and expand the instrument in the Instrument tree.

2. Expand the Bank Select Method branch in the Names tree.

3. Drag the desired bank select method from the Names tree to the Instrument tree.

 

[rashidDrums]

17 hours ago, bvideo said:

The sysex shown is GS reset, meaning all patches are to be set to default? Then it must be the patches embedded per track in the file that are not being set properly. The post about reading banks maybe has a big clue. The instrument definition for the chosen synth has bank numbers and also an option that chooses how the bank number should be interpreted ("bank select method"). Perhaps the older versions of Pro Audio don't use that.

From the help pdf:

So check the bank numbers in your instrument definition file; also if it has "Controller 0 only", change it to one of the others & vice versa.

 

You are right. I checked Track properties just after midi file opening and that is how they look:

 

9.00

 

 

9.03

 

 

When I changed this from "Normal *" to "Controller 0" the problem has gone! Thank you.

So after 9.01-9.03 Cakewalk Pro Audio and its successors defaults Bank Select Method to "Normal *"? While other sequencers do not. Interesting...

 

BTW, I cant find Track properties in a current Cakewalk:

 

I remember such a thing was in SONARs v7 and 8, which I used most, and now it's gone. Docs say look in the "Instrument tree". Ah.. Where it is? )

[bvideo]

Properties of tracks and buses, and also prochannel controls, clips, and now the arranger, are now all in the inspector pane. Type 'I' (eye) to open the inspector (or main menu views->inspector). Click on a track. There are icons at the top of that inspector - make sure the triple-horizontal-bar icon is selected, and there are the track properties.

Instrument definitions are in the edit->preferences dialog (or just type 'p'), under the midi section. There is kind of a tree there, and with help from 'help' you can figure out how to configure your synth to always use the right bank select method.