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AdK Studios

Some issues that needs to be rectified as soon as possible

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4 minutes ago, AdK Studios said:

Oh! in that case - this can already be achieved, by adding another node in between and choosing Fast or Slow curve for your desired curve. It's a stretch, but it works.

A control point on the linear will be great too.  

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58 minutes ago, AdK Studios said:

They can't be edited too, unless we add more nodes in between the two nodes.

 @Will_Kaydo I already said what you are trying to show us. But, Cakewalk might be the only "professional DAW" in which the producer has to do that much to get there.
We can't control how much of a curve it should be. Adding nodes does not necessarily make the curves smooth. Also, with this method, if we wanna change the degree of the curve after a while, we will have to deal with all the additional nodes that we added for the "perfect curve"
The goal of the suggestions is to improve Cakewalk, not find workarounds.

Anyway, thank you...

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2 hours ago, AdK Studios said:

 if we wanna change the degree of the curve after a while, we will have to deal with all the additional nodes that we added for the "perfect curve"

"Hence:" to why I said it's a stretch!

5 years doing EDM in Cakewalk, well - you get to pick up a few extra skills drawing things in. 

FYI! I merely just stated, that it is achievable doing it "manually" until this gets implemented. 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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2 hours ago, AdK Studios said:

Sorry, but that wasn't what I was trying to say. My terminology must have been confusing. My apologies.

 

Right now, we are limited to 4 types of curves in automation. One of them is jump and another is linear, leaving only two actual curves, available between two nodes (fast or slow). They can't be edited too, unless we add more nodes in between the two nodes.

1809653527_Automationlimit.png.5d1b2d7db44f29cf2bcaf28b87f4c353.png


The following is what I meant by automation curve point. My terminology might not have been right.

 

Curve.webm 955.04 kB · 2 downloads

Linear should be able to do the S curves with that point.
Other curves that can be considered to be revealed on a right click are S Curve and Bezier curve; These are not actually necessities. Just wanted to put it out there.

And it will also be great to have this "curve points" on the fades of audio clips.

Ah you mean control points on bezier curves. Yes we plan on improving the curve editing tools in CbB at some point. We already have this in a different product.

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@AdK Studios just so I understand where you are coming from with these discussion points, as a long term user of Cakewalk Software (27 years) how exactly do you produce music?

Do you play keys guitar, drums, wind or strings?

This is not meant in any way negatively just to help me understand your points.

In response to one of your issues on audio export I will say I have noticed in the Audio Export dialogue the option to included/apply Buss FX.

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On 1/31/2021 at 11:57 AM, AdK Studios said:

Thanks for clearing that up. But, the solution is quite not a practical one when we have upwards of 100 tracks. Guess I'll have to find the work around for that myself. 

I often have to deliver stems and the best method I have found is to use Track Folders and set one up for each buss / stem.  Just mute everything else and do a normal export  . 

image.thumb.png.9ea720c6de6ab1e2e10ed85454c6237b.png

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On 1/31/2021 at 2:00 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

I’m curious why this is such a common requirement for your workflow - i.e. to export individual tracks through buses?

I don't lease beats like the OP but I do have to upload deliverables to publishers / music libraries etc.

Some of them do ask for " track outs " which is basically every track isolated with all your automation/fx intact.  The reason they ask for this is their clients ( usually TV or movie production companies  ) want more control and the ability to rebuild the mix and deliver custom mixes after the fact without the need to go back to the original producer.

These tracks can get licensed into a TV show or Movie a number of years down the line so having the track outs is a valuable asset to the Publisher and means they can offer more tailored Alt Mixes and charge more for the service.  

The original Producer also stands to benefit by having more chances to get their music placed so it's in their interest to provide what the Publishers specify but it's a real PITA to do this by soloing each track as most track counts are at least 40+ .

Luckily some companies only want Stems ( i.e. Bass - Drums - Guitars - Strings - Keys ) and they can build a more crude custom mix from those which means there's only 10 - 12 stems to export on average.  Currently the best way is to use Track Folders for this IMHO ( see above ) but sub folders would be a massive help as you often have to sub-divide stems as well.  i.e  All Guitars ( Main Folder )  - All Lead Guitars ( Sub Folder ) - All Rhythm Guitars ( Sub Folder )

At the moment you have to deal with this manually.

Mark  

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4 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

I don't lease beats like the OP but I do have to upload deliverables to publishers / music libraries etc.

Some of them do ask for " track outs " which is basically every track isolated with all your automation/fx intact.  The reason they ask for this is their clients ( usually TV or movie production companies  ) want more control and the ability to rebuild the mix and deliver custom mixes after the fact without the need to go back to the original producer.

These tracks can get licensed into a TV show or Movie a number of years down the line so having the track outs is a valuable asset to the Publisher and means they can offer more tailored Alt Mixes and charge more for the service.  

The original Producer also stands to benefit by having more chances to get their music placed so it's in their interest to provide what the Publishers specify but it's a real PITA to do this by soloing each track as most track counts are at least 40+ .

Luckily some companies only want Stems ( i.e. Bass - Drums - Guitars - Strings - Keys ) and they can build a more crude custom mix from those which means there's only 10 - 12 stems to export on average.  Currently the best way is to use Track Folders for this IMHO ( see above ) but sub folders would be a massive help as you often have to sub-divide stems as well.  i.e  All Guitars ( Main Folder )  - All Lead Guitars ( Sub Folder ) - All Rhythm Guitars ( Sub Folder )

At the moment you have to deal with this manually.

Mark  

@Mark Morgon-Shaw when you say track outs do you mean to capture the output of the tracks themselves or the output including downstream effects and automation on buses? The former is already available by exporting with source category set to tracks.
Its the latter case that we are discussing here.

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7 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

I don't lease beats like the OP but I do have to upload deliverables to publishers / music libraries etc.

Some of them do ask for " track outs " which is basically every track isolated with all your automation/fx intact.  The reason they ask for this is their clients ( usually TV or movie production companies  ) want more control and the ability to rebuild the mix and deliver custom mixes after the fact without the need to go back to the original producer.

These tracks can get licensed into a TV show or Movie a number of years down the line so having the track outs is a valuable asset to the Publisher and means they can offer more tailored Alt Mixes and charge more for the service.  

The original Producer also stands to benefit by having more chances to get their music placed so it's in their interest to provide what the Publishers specify but it's a real PITA to do this by soloing each track as most track counts are at least 40+ .

Luckily some companies only want Stems ( i.e. Bass - Drums - Guitars - Strings - Keys ) and they can build a more crude custom mix from those which means there's only 10 - 12 stems to export on average.  Currently the best way is to use Track Folders for this IMHO ( see above ) but sub folders would be a massive help as you often have to sub-divide stems as well.  i.e  All Guitars ( Main Folder )  - All Lead Guitars ( Sub Folder ) - All Rhythm Guitars ( Sub Folder )

At the moment you have to deal with this manually.

Mark  

I too am in the world of leasing tracks and tv, where clients mainly ask for tracksouts. I'm with @Noel Borthwick on this one. Why is this still a discussion? It's right there in front of your eyes when you export your final mix. Nowhere near am I meaning any of this in a negative way. 

Cakewalk does and handle this extremely seamless

Cakewalk gives you the flexibility to do this from two options. 

I normally do this with "Bounce to Tracks" and when i'm ready to export: I set my Source Category to "Tracks" and my Channel Format to "Follow Source."

Reason why I don't choose "Clips" as my Source Category in the Export Dialogue Box: Cakewalk does not rename clips when you rename your Tracks. So, if you forget to go up to tracks and select Copy Track names to Clip names (which I normally forget to do seeing that in my mind this needs to be done automatically by the DAW when you rename your tracks - that clips should follow) you will end up with unnamed clips reading "Record 1 to Record 50" if it's recorded information. 

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19 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@Mark Morgon-Shaw when you say track outs do you mean to capture the output of the tracks themselves or the output including downstream effects and automation on buses? The former is already available by exporting with source category set to tracks.
Its the latter case that we are discussing here.

When a publisher asks for " track outs " they mean the latter.   

 

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16 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

I normally do this with "Bounce to Tracks" and when i'm ready to export: I set my Source Category to "Tracks" and my Channel Format to "Follow Source."

Yes I know. What we are saying is it doesn't apply any FX from the busses

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8 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

Yes I know. What we are saying is it doesn't apply any FX from the busses

Do you mean something like this? Its only Bus FX with Automation.

Bus Fx-Bus Fx.mp3

I'm just trying to understand. 

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4 minutes ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

No I am on about the FX on the Sub-Group-Busses 

image.thumb.png.3a4768f017253cdf6344e845b07e6386.png

Yeah! That's how I created those FX outs. 

Though, I get what you're saying now, after reading over your replies again. 

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@AdK Studios I have implemented changes to automation that greatly improve the sample accuracy of plugin envelopes during playback and bounces.  The following is new:

  • VST automation rendering now directly handles all the automation curves natively. Irrespective of the setting of AutomationDecimationMsec it is guaranteed to be buffer accurate.
  • For VST3 plugins Cbb sends intra buffer changes to the plugin when automation curves intersect with the buffer. Depending on the plugin this will be sample accurate. 
  • AutomationDecimationMsec default has been reduced to a default of 5 msec. The permissible range is now 1-30 msec. For the greatest accuracy you can set it to 1 msec (it will come at a minor CPU cost)

These changes should also improve accuracy of automation for DX plugins. VST3 plugins will have the most benefits (with plugins that actually fully support sample accurate VST3 automation). The Plugin in your test project doesn't support sample intra buffer automation so it will only be accurate to the buffer boundaries. Known VST3 plugins that support sample accurate automation are those from Fabfilter. Also the Kilohearts plugins support this. I have tested with a massive audio buffer size of > 300 milliseconds and the plugins still render sample accurate automation. So filter sweeps will sound smooth independent of the buffer size in VST3.

Here is a build  (updated to build 102) that has these changes. Could you (and anyone who has an interest in testing this) check it out and let me know if it solves the problem. 
Please report any issues specific to this if you notice anything.

Thanks.

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On 2/5/2021 at 12:29 PM, AdK Studios said:

Linear should be able to do the S curves with that point.
Other curves that can be considered to be revealed on a right click are S Curve and Bezier curve; These are not actually necessities. Just wanted to put it out there.

And it will also be great to have this "curve points" on the fades of audio clips.

For example would be nice when holding Shift key on keyboard then linear become S curve or something like that : )

Edited by solarlux

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I reported something similar to @Jonathan Sasor a few months ago based on another thread.

@Noel Borthwick it is much better with the new release. 

The setup to demo used MOscillator and MFreqShifter in an audio FX rack automating shift in MFreqShifter (n.b. both plug-ins are free in the MFreeFXBundle). The sweep was getting quantized and the effect was audible. I used both VST2 and VST3 while testing.

One thing I still notice are glitches when drawing the envelope while the transport is running. Drawing is happening nowhere near the play head but it still affects audio. Play was looping and I was drawing new automation well to the right of the loop.

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4 hours ago, scook said:

I reported something similar to @Jonathan Sasor a few months ago based on another thread.

@Noel Borthwick it is much better with the new release. 

The setup to demo used MOscillator and MFreqShifter in an audio FX rack automating shift in MFreqShifter (n.b. both plug-ins are free in the MFreeFXBundle). The sweep was getting quantized and the effect was audible. I used both VST2 and VST3 while testing.

One thing I still notice are glitches when drawing the envelope while the transport is running. Drawing is happening nowhere near the play head but it still affects audio. Play was looping and I was drawing new automation well to the right of the loop.

@scook All VST3s are not equal. Many VST3's are just VST2 plugin ports that dont implement sample accurate automation. So even though Cbb sends them the data they discard all the intra buffer points. The easy way to test it is artificially run at a large buffer size (use MME or Wasapi exclusive to set high buffer sizes). If the automation is quantized to the buffer size you know that the plugin doesnt support it.  

I'm not hearing glitches when drawing automation here. You may need to send a project to repro it. Envelopes are rebroadcast while editing however,

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