Komplete Kontrol Mk2 keyboard support?

[Billy86]

19 hours ago, S K said:

Ok so as someone who has a Mackie Control unit working beautifully with CBB, I can recommend something like that for workflow. The ability to mute, arm, solo traks and change their levels with a hardware thing sat on your desk is great, as well as scrub forward and backward.   But a major feature of it for me is the motorised faders, which go up and down as the track moves.  So you can accurately adjust levels.  You open a track and all the faders jump into position.  If they don't I dont see how it can be that useful.  You open a track and let's say lead vocals are on 57/100 but your nano control unit is down at 0 or wherever you left it last.  What are you going to do?  As soon as you touch the korg it'll rewrite the level, so you can't just nudge it up or down a little you basically have to key in a new figure from scratch.    

The beauty with (as I have fantasized it) the possibility of NI Mk2 mixers is that I think it just gets the number and it's probably infinitely turning knobs so you can just nudge up or down a little like if it was motorised faders as it just goes by the value it has.  I'm probably explaining this really badly and someone else may do a better job!

However I like that korg (haev seen it before) because it's so small.  My MCU is great but it's HUGE hence I'll be selling it and would be looking at the Behringer X-touch instead or if I want an even smaller formfactor perhaps the Icon M+.

 

You make a good point here about needing some kind of workaround for the non-motorized fader issue on the Korg unit. If you set a track level, move away, then come back and the Korg/DAW fader are out of synch... hmm. Maybe disable the track’s Read function?

[S K]

1 hour ago, Billy86 said:

You make a good point here about needing some kind of workaround for the non-motorized fader issue on the Korg unit. If you set a track level, move away, then come back and the Korg/DAW fader are out of synch... hmm. Maybe disable the track’s Read function?

Yeah I just don't tbh how/why people use mixers that aren't motorised (or touch sensitive - although I can understand this one more).   Perhaps for the transport bit, and for controlling various VST parameters.  But if mixing is your reason then really they need to be motorised as far as I know.

[ptheisen]

Some simple controllers with non-motorized faders and/or traditional knobs instead of endless encoders still have two way communication with the DAW, so that they know what the DAW's current parameter value is, even if they don't display it. This enables them to write logic that does what some call a "soft takeover". As the knob/fader is being physically moved, the controller doesn't begin sending it's value to the DAW until that value equals the DAW's current value. It's not quite as good as motorized faders or endless encoders are, but it's a lot better than the alternative "parameter jumping".

I don't know if the Korg controllers have some version of this or not. I know the Nektar LX+ controllers do, and they also have a "driver" specifically for Cakewalk (well, Sonar at the time it was developed). I'm hoping they will work well with CbB, especially because Santa  is bringing me one for Christmas, so I should find out soon.

Since I was just describing this soft takeover functionality, it is worth noting for users of Studio One that, based only on comments by others on this forum,  Presonus has somehow disabled it in their DAW for non-Presonus controllers that have non-motorized faders and/or traditional knobs. I guess that is one way to gain an edge on their lower end hardware competitors.

[msmcleod]

8 hours ago, S K said:

Yeah I just don't tbh how/why people use mixers that aren't motorised (or touch sensitive - although I can understand this one more).   Perhaps for the transport bit, and for controlling various VST parameters.  But if mixing is your reason then really they need to be motorised as far as I know.

I've got an MCU + XT + C4 in my studio, but in my spare room I use the Korg nanoKONTROL Studio which doesn't have motorised faders.

For the most part, I don't find the lack of motorised faders much of an issue.  Sure, it's a pain setting them up to initial values, but:

• I try to keep the fader at zero as much as possible, using offset mode to get it to the right place. 
• It's primary function for me is to record bus volume automation by riding the bus faders during mixdown.  I find it very useful to be able to control 8 buses at once.
• For tweaking tracks, it's equally useful, but I use it less for that.

[azslow3]

Simple controls can be used more then just in "Jump" and "Soft takeoff" modes. I have played with that in AZ Controller and I have found 2 additional modes useful:

•  "Endless imitation" mode . Knob/fader always change parameter from current value, but it does that in one half of its range for particular direction. That allows "fine tuning", which is not possible otherwise.
• "Instant" mode. Knob/fader always change parameter from current value and does that from any position. But "resolution" is initially lower when position and value mismatch. That allows instant coarse changes without jump nor soft takeoff.

In addition, especially in "Instant" mode, non linear curves can work better for particular parameters.

For myself, I have found that tuning something is convenient with encoders (f.e. X-Touch MINI can provide almost the same functionality as MCU-like devices), while automating or live changes during playing is better with normal controls. I mean making smooth in time changes with Behringer encoders is almost impossible for me. I have shortly tested NI encoders for that and the feeling was better, but still not the same as turning/moving "real" thing 🙄

[S K]

Thanks pt, az and mcleod for chiming in on this, clearly it's a bit more above my head.  I was going to sell my MCU and get a Behringer X-touch instead.  I'd love to be getting a non-motorised one, much cheaper, but I can't see how it would work.   You load a track up and you have a bunch of channels at different levels.  You want to increase or reduce one but when you turn it nothing happens because it hasn't reached the right level yet.   Or you zero it and then make changes after that - but then you can only go up not down...?   I've never really considered before the possibility of infinite knobs instead though until I figured if the KK Mk2 might be able to do this.   As I don't play faders like an instrument, (I'd only be changing 2 at a time max) I'm not bothered about faders.  But sadly there's nothing I see like the Nanokontrol that mixes with endless knobs, has mute, arm, solo for the tracks, a display and proper transport controls with a jog wheel, these things (faderport 8, behringer xtouch, icon M, g2, MCU etc) all seem to be faders instead.  Unless anyone can point me anywhere else.  I'm not wed to the idea of motorised faders, I just can't see any decent alternatives for what I need.

[ptheisen]

I don't want to derail this thread, just want to followup on a couple of things I mentioned in my last response. I've had a chance to play a bit with the Nektar LX+49 that I received for Christmas. When set up according to the directions, it works as advertised with CbB, so I am very happy with it. The soft-takover works fine in CbB. It also works fine in Studio One 5, contrary to what I had read a while ago, but maybe this is a somewhat recent change for Studio One.

Back to the KK keyboards, they are close to what you are looking for if you're using one of the supported DAWs. Or maybe if Azlow3 could figure out how to access the Track mode with his AZController??? There was a user on your site that said they had developed a preset for the mk2 keyboards that did most of the mixer functions, and he provided the file for download, but when I tried it, it appeared almost "empty" to me, none of the controls were mapped to anything, and not surprisingly, it did nothing.

[Ez Tutor]

On 12/20/2020 at 11:57 PM, S K said:

I am rather surprised that Cakewalk has slipped such that it is no longer considered worthy to programme for.  I'm shocked that NI and others (I think Arturia) programme for toy sequencers like Fruity Loops (!!!!!???) but not incredible ones like Cakewalk.  FL is a kid's toy and I used it to play around and have fun with cute beats, when I was paying good money for Sonar.   Now I'm using CBB and somehow FL has arisen to be above the mighty Cakewalk so peopel prioritise that instead?  

Although you rectified this comment later on I still want to comment on this.

What people seem to miss is that what they consider a good or the best DAW, heavily depends on their workflow and how they make music.

Allot of people work with real instruments recording tracks, that's way Pro-Tools is such a big player. because from what I've read it has pretty much the best out of the the box workflow, tools and plugins for this.

But what people using DAWs as recording tools for voices and real instruments don't understand. Is that they're also people who mainly use midi recording/programming to make their music. That's  why there's so much un-necessary battles/beefs about what DAW is best. 

And when it comes to Midi-programming, FL studio is very very good!! The interface and workflow for this is just super nice! In my opinion they have the best piano roll workflow (except for renaming their timestamps to steps instead of 4/4 etc.

So long story short: People should take in account what other people use their DAW for (and personal workflow prefs ofcourse) instead of self-projecting it and and calling it bad or what ever.

I'm loving CakeWalk so far. And the pano-roll (although a bit quirky with zoom sometimes) is pretty awesome to.

The way I work I think that Studio-One would be the best fit for me. (I mostly do midi recording/programming)

-----

I'm also curious to see if NI's Komplete Kontrol S88 MK2 Can properly work in CakeWalk.

Maybe it's worth looking in to Arturia's Keylab 88 MKII (they also have a black version now)
Although I really like how NI's board looks especially with those screens and LED lights and full integration with their plugins, for me the better choice would be Arturia's Keylab series because of their focus on DAW control as opposed to plugins control. that said arturia does offer a nice plugins control feature, even for 3d parties.
And personaly I also like that it comes with drum pads.
 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Ez Tutor