Will. Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) It seems like cakewalks main focus is on Articulation at the moment. The tempo event need some major upgrades as well. A better way to draw in the differences is much needed as it is way out-dated. There's no snap settings on it for stability. So if you don't have the patients, it'll definitely fry some brain cells with frustrations on a bigger screen. Request to draw the differences in by selecting a region and move up or down to set your tempo directly with displaying the envelope on the clip itself. Edited February 3, 2021 by Will_Kaydo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjoens Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) I'm all for a "vertical" snap. In Tempo View, Global Snap only affects tempo time, not the tempo itself. To enter a specific tempo you have to draw/click where you want it, go to the righthand list, double click the tempo and adjust it manually. You can also change tempo using the Control Bar Transport Module and enter the exact tempo, or the File Menu Project > Insert Tempo Change which opens the same dialog window as above. Edited December 10, 2020 by sjoens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted December 10, 2020 Author Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, sjoens said: Global Snap only affects tempo time That's why it need some much needed update for "TEMPO EVENTS" It's impossible to see the tempo selection to slow or speed up on bigger screens. Those digits are so tiny! It will be much easier to make a selection as how you would do with any envelope on a clip. quicker, easier and way more precise than the current inserts. Insert some nodes, move up or down to your preferred tempo on your selected region within the time (CLIP TEMPO) - done! This will allow to only speed up or slow down the preferred clip and not global tempo. If I just want to speed up drums - that all I want to speed up. Edited December 10, 2020 by Will_Kaydo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjoens Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Clip tempo vs. Global tempo. There's an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland-Music Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 On 12/10/2020 at 10:26 AM, Will_Kaydo said: It will be much easier to make a selection as how you would do with any envelope on a clip. quicker, easier and way more precise than the current inserts. Insert some nodes, move up or down to your preferred tempo on your selected region within the time (CLIP TEMPO) - done! I don't know any DAW that has clip tempo changes, because everything runs out of sync and what happens with the signature changes in a project.?! Yes, this works perhaps for your workflow, but that is unfortunately not looked over the horizon for other users 😏If you are film scoring for example, you have global Clip Markers, that are nailed / locked to SMPTE-Timecode in the Movie. These manual tempo changes kills (currently) the Markers Positions! There is a different between musical time base and linear time base material. Some other DAWs have an intelligent Tempo Changes, where you can lock these parameters, and the new tempo will calculate automatically..! Tempo Curves or Time Warp Tool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted December 11, 2020 Author Share Posted December 11, 2020 14 minutes ago, Roland-Music said: I don't know any DAW that has clip tempo changes, Exactly! This will bring the world of creativity to a whole new world. Especially with vocals and drum rolls - great for EDM and the metal heads. 20 minutes ago, Roland-Music said: If you are film scoring for example, you have global Clip Markers, that are nailed / locked to SMPTE-Timecode in the Movie. This will be excellent to create the Horror high pitch FX and Slow down for that Drone brass string in Sci-Fi! Wouldn't have request it if I didn't do scroring too. If you can stretch a clip within a locked Global Tempo - pretty sure clip tempo will work the same. You can't speed up or slow down a clip with an envelope on time stretch now can you?! FL studio do this with ease! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 Definitely +1. Bumping up. We need this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murat k. Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Three topics in a row. Yeah, that was a real bump up @Will_Kaydo We definitely need this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarlux Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) How in studio one something like that? We can maybe refine this idea and to figure out how to make best tempo track from all DAWS. We need figure out idea best Tempo track from all But tempo track is crucial feature. Would be nice to add automation to master tempo Tempo track variatoins also would be cool if possible switch between them. Edited February 3, 2021 by solarlux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 56 minutes ago, solarlux said: How in studio one something like that? We can maybe refine this idea and to figure out how to make best tempo track from all DAWS. We need figure out idea best Tempo track from all But tempo track is crucial feature. Would be nice to add automation to master tempo Exactly like that, yes. With individual clip tempo speed setting too. Global Setting is available in CbB, just a hassle at times and super outdated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarlux Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said: Exactly like that, yes. With individual clip tempo speed setting too. Global Setting is available in CbB, just a hassle at times and super outdated. Would be also cool posibility to switch between saved tempo variations : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland-Music Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 The most exiting Tempo tool has Digital Performer: Find Tempo DP Find Tempo from 2013 🤨 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcL Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 On 2/3/2021 at 12:35 PM, solarlux said: How in studio one something like that? We can maybe refine this idea and to figure out how to make best tempo track from all DAWS. We need figure out idea best Tempo track from all But tempo track is crucial feature. Would be nice to add automation to master tempo Tempo track variatoins also would be cool if possible switch between them. I am afraid that such an implementation ... Generates a lot of "useless" tempo events that knock the overall system. IMO it does not make sense to have tempo changes that are more granular than the smallest notes of the song! It may destroy the tempo transparency of the project. With the current implementation it is easily possible to copy and adjust an audio clip of one project to another project with different tempo changes. I did this today successfully with some vocal takes of the same song, but different recordings (projects). I made a copy of the takes in the original project, set transient markers at the note positions (precisely snapped to 1/16, not the notes, but the transient markers). Then I copied those takes into the 2nd project where I could simply stretch the transient markers to the correct positions according to the project tempo. Cool, like this I could absolutely preserve the vocalist's feel (what's not possible if you just copy the clips and then simply quantize them in the 2nd project). By the way like this you can also copy/move a vocal part in the same project with a lot of tempo variations without losing the vocalist's feel! No other DAW that I have ever tested or used has such a cool support for tempo/audio snap! Most DAWs make some automatic adjustments that work only for percussion and absolutely not for vocals or synth sounds ... And those automatic detections/adjustments kill all the feel and swing of the music! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarlux Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, marled said: I am afraid that such an implementation ... Generates a lot of "useless" tempo events that knock the overall system. IMO it does not make sense to have tempo changes that are more granular than the smallest notes of the song! It may destroy the tempo transparency of the project. With the current implementation it is easily possible to copy and adjust an audio clip of one project to another project with different tempo changes. I did this today successfully with some vocal takes of the same song, but different recordings (projects). I made a copy of the takes in the original project, set transient markers at the note positions (precisely snapped to 1/16, not the notes, but the transient markers). Then I copied those takes into the 2nd project where I could simply stretch the transient markers to the correct positions according to the project tempo. Cool, like this I could absolutely preserve the vocalist's feel (what's not possible if you just copy the clips and then simply quantize them in the 2nd project). By the way like this you can also copy/move a vocal part in the same project with a lot of tempo variations without losing the vocalist's feel! No other DAW that I have ever tested or used has such a cool support for tempo/audio snap! Most DAWs make some automatic adjustments that work only for percussion and absolutely not for vocals or synth sounds ... And those automatic detections/adjustments kill all the feel and swing of the music! I need more practice in tempo map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, marled said: No other DAW that I have ever tested or used has such a cool support for tempo/audio snap! FL Studio does whats in discussion ×100 better! Really don't know why examples of other daws always have to be brought in. It does it either by Clip or Global setting. Edited February 5, 2021 by Will_Kaydo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland-Music Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 17 hours ago, marled said: No other DAW that I have ever tested or used has such a cool support for tempo/audio snap! Most DAWs make some automatic adjustments that work only for percussion and absolutely not for vocals or synth sounds ... And those automatic detections/adjustments kill all the feel and swing of the music! Most of the suggestions here about speed, tempo covers only ONE part (which your personal use is), but it is not able to work for all kinds of Tempo Changes 🤨 There are only 3 DAWs (Cubase, Logic Pro X, Digital Performer) that works for scoring to picture with Beat mapping, Hit- or Waypoint Markers with Time and Signature Changes. All other DAWs ignore this - Studio One also - all Tempo Changes are not working correct with locked SMPTE-Timecode. This is not marginal - if the tempo event this not considered it is a showstopper for this DAW, because there is no usable workaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 This is over simplified, but basically : Cakewalk is a largely a musical time based DAW. The absolute time (i.e H:M:S:F or samples) for any event is calculated based on the tempo map. When the audio engine is running, it's running in samples... however it relies on the tempo map to convert to/from musical time. So having tempo changes based on a particular absolute time makes no sense in this context, as it's the tempo changes themselves that dictate the absolute time at any point in the time line. It's a complete chicken/egg situation. Technically, there may be some ways around this, such as: Converting the start of your tempo change back to musical time based on the previous tempos, and inserting it there Adjusting the start of any future tempo changes accordingly. However, there's a huge risk that the future tempo changes could actually end up being before or in the middle of the tempos you're actually inserting.... cos, well, you've changed the tempo, so the equivalent absolute start times of all the other tempo changes have now changed too. So currently, the only way to ensure a clip starts at exactly the time you want is: Bounce your clip to audio Set the bounced clip to absolute time This will ensure the clip with all its tempo changes "baked in" will be aligned to absolute time. You could do this as a temporary measure until you're happy everything is where it should be, then adjust your tempo map at the end, and go back to using the original MIDI clips. Adding the bpm at the end of the temporary audio clip name may help in identifying where you need to put your tempo changes. Another solution may be to use Process->Fit to Time to stretch the events to fit the tempo (or indeed the tempo map to fit your events). I appreciate this may take a bit of "getting your head around", but I hope this makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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