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Will_Kaydo

I think I'm gona take a go at this again. Freeze midi to audio in place.

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10 hours ago, Terry Kelley said:

If we could convert a midi/instrument track to wave in one stroke wouldn't that require the midi/instrument track to be converted to a wave track? Seems that could be "problematic." I like the idea but question the logic needed.

No it wouldn't require to convert it to wave track, that's what freeze is already. If you see my previous post above, I specifically said about another, or new, audio track: "drag a clip or selection of MIDI to another audio track (or empty space to create a new track) - with a key modifier - to bounce MIDI to audio clip on the fly". So there is freeze for instant MIDI-to-audio where no additional settings are involved (but you loose further access to MIDI unless you unfreeze back again) and it's best if you want to turn the whole midi track to audio and only work in audio from now on. The other two methods I know for bouncing MIDI to audio are Bounce to Tracks where a few additional steps are required on a settings page meaning no on-the-fly in practice, and export to audio file and then drag it from browser or explorer into project afterwards but that's even more steps. What I suggested is something between freezing and bounce to tracks, an instant MIDI-to-audio but leaving MIDI untouched and placing audio clip on another track with automatically tail being added. Like I said, useful for example if you want to keep your synth open and just make different melodic ideas in a MIDI track using different synth presets and immediately drag them directly into your audio part of the project with a single step. Hard to believe only me and Will see that useful... EDIT: actually I see that Will has another use for it but the idea stays the same :D 

We're nearly 2021 in digital era, we'd love our DAWs make as many tedious tasks for us and take the daunting part of the job out of equation, no? :) 

Edited by chris.r
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47 minutes ago, marled said:

Even with freeze you really don't know what is all included in the operation (or you have to go to the docu each time you use it).

I actually like it, it's like WYHIWYG (what you hear is what you get) @ 32bit floating point (in default setting) meaning most seamless MIDI-to-audio.

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Okay - I admit, I might have gotten the approach and idea towards my concept of the request wrong before. 

Gif1: At the moment if you want to bounce clips together after you've done a freeze and the audio clip has been edit with cut (as you might know, we cut and reverse certain sections on notes/chords in the region of the file/clip, a lot in EDM, Hiphop, Pop (3 major genre's at the moment.) This can't be done on the freeze track. I respect that, as you might want to go and unfreeze to alter a few information on it later.1359670021_CbBFreeze1.gif.2b28eff4a1c1b6649a9f657c5331ab6e.gif

 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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Gif2: What if you can freeze the individual files to an Audio track with a feature by right clicking?  Right now, what I do is freeze the synth drag it down and do my "edits" and bounce the information on the "Audio Track" there, but this is a stretch at times - especially if you're just testing an idea with creativity. 

1073822352_CbBFreeze2.gif.c81c77c3c67d214768ad11688f59b00d.gif

So, being able to "freeze to an audio track" by right clicking on the midi file, without having to freeze the synth first and then drag down - will be a much smoother workflow as you would still have the Freeze track in Midi and the "Midi Information" on an "Audio track" in audio information . 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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2 hours ago, murat k. said:

Hi Will,
Converting Instrument Track to an Audio Track with one single command can be useful.

Hey Murat, Thanks. Yeah I know, but it comes with disadvantages. 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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EXAMPLE ONLY!!!

Here we go: 

This will give you the option to keep both Freeze and Audio information - in case editing is required on the instrument track, and only the highlighted region will be "freezed" by "right click.CbB Freeze 3.gif

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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3 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

EXAMPLE ONLY!!!

Here we go: 

This will give you the option to keep both Freeze and Audio information - in case editing is required on the instrument track, and only the highlighted region will be "freezed" by "right click.

So what you are saying is you desire exactly the same end result that you can get with ' Bounce To Track(s) '  but with some of the steps removed ?

So instead of it being under the Tracks menu at the top of the Track View you want it on the right click menu , and instead of the Dialogue Box that pops up with the Source / Destination  and the various Bounce Options you want it to skip that part and automatically use the current selection  - leaving everything enabled (  FX - Automation etc ) and create a new Audio Track below the current one with the new Wav / Clip  ?

If I am understanding you correctly you're turning a 3 mouse click process into a 2 click process but losing the option to customise the bounce.

I agree the current right click menu should include Bounce To Track, it's more intuitive for it to be next to Bounce To Clip than tucked away at the top.  Maybe it would be better to ask for configurable menus and macros then this type of thing could be easily done

You can bind Bounce To Track to a keystroke - I've just bound mine to CTRL+B, so if I hit that and press enter it's pretty quick 

I can go one better and bind the whole thing to a single key on my Stream Deck 

Edited by Mark Morgon-Shaw
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I also use a shorcut for converting a specific MIDI Clip on an Instrument Track to an Audio Clip which uses Bounce to Track command.  Just stretch the end of the MIDI clip till the sound disappears, select the clip and use the shorcut. 

Script Shortcut:
F3
Keyboard Bindings in the Script:
Bounce to Tracks: Ctrl + B

Selected MIDI Clip to Audio Clip.ahk Selected MIDI Clip to Audio Clip.exe

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11 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

So instead of it being under the Tracks menu at the top of the Track View you want it on the right click menu , and instead of the Dialogue Box that pops up with the Source / Destination  and the various Bounce Options you want it to skip that part and automatically use the current selection  - leaving everything enabled (  FX - Automation etc ) and create a new Audio Track below the current one with the new Wav / Clip  ?

Not quite - there's a Yes and a No here. The "No" part is: We don't want it to copy the FX plugs in the chain. We want it to only copy the "clip/audio information" to an Audio track - from there you can add effects to it like with any other track. 

The YES: Just with a "right click" under "bounce to clips" and your track will be created with the "Bounce to track" feature. From here it will be treated as any other "Audio Track." 

A simple Idea that started from confusions and Arguments, Finally understood. This is why we need to ask question instead of just shrugging the OP off. 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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5 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

 The "No" part is: We don't want it to copy the FX plugs in the chain. We want it to only copy the "clip/audio information" to an Audio track - from there you than can add effects to it like with any other track. 

The dialogue box is for what's included in the audio bounce.   I don't mean copy the FX that are in the source track's  FX Bin over.

Do you want it to apply the source's original FX to the newly bounced audio  ?  Or do you want the raw audio without any FX on ? Personally I would want them on ..others may differ then you're back to the 3 clicks and it's no quicker than it is now. Except maybe a bit easier to find. 

I think binding what we have to a keystroke is pretty close.  A macro or script shortcut is virtually there or thereabouts.

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10 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

The dialogue box is for what's included in the audio bounce.   I don't mean copy the FX that are in the source track's  FX Bin over.

Do you want it to apply the source's original FX to the newly bounced audio  ?  Or do you want the raw audio without any FX on ? Personally I would want them on ..others may differ then you're back to the 3 clicks and it's no quicker than it is now. Except maybe a bit easier to find. 

I think binding what we have to a keystroke is pretty close.  A macro or script shortcut is virtually there or thereabouts.

Press CTRL+T thats how it should "copy/bounce/render/burn/write" the Midi File to Audio track with the audio information. Without any effects on it - Dry as Mars. Obviously, the instrument FX inside itself wont be able to be removed with this, but if it's possible - hack yeah. 

You'll then have the option under the "Freeze synth option" to select how you want this feature to "Bouce/Render/Burn/Copy" the information to an Audio track for you. Like how it works now - Add or Remove FX.

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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11 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

If it can be done with export - why would it be a problem to do this "in place, in house, on the spot?"

Maybe what we want is for it to create a new wave track at the same time? I don't understand how an instrument track and wave track can be the same thing at the same time when they are different things.

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Hi Terry,

If you freeze an Instrument Track and then you split that Instrument Track, you'll see there is an Audio Clip and a MIDI Clip separate from each other. When you freeze an Instrument track, it does not affect on CPU, it is just an Audio and a MIDI track. The only disadvantage is if you do some changes on the audio clip, you lose all the information after unfreezing the synth. But if you want to work with the Audio clip and keep the freezed Instrument Track at the same time, you can use this shortcut script. The script mutes the freezed synth and copies the audio information to an empty audio track. It works when you move the mouse cursor on the freezed instrument track's number with not selected status.

Script Shortcut: F5
Keyboard Bindings in Cakewalk: Toggle Track Mute for selected track: ALT+M

 

Freezed Instrument Track with Audio Track.ahk Freezed Instrument Track with Audio Track.exe

Edited by murat k.

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11 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

The dialogue box is for what's included in the audio bounce.   I don't mean copy the FX that are in the source track's  FX Bin over.

Do you want it to apply the source's original FX to the newly bounced audio  ?  Or do you want the raw audio without any FX on ? Personally I would want them on ..others may differ then you're back to the 3 clicks and it's no quicker than it is now. Except maybe a bit easier to find. 

I think binding what we have to a keystroke is pretty close.  A macro or script shortcut is virtually there or thereabouts.

this ^^^^

And there are even more options that are relevant to users, maybe you want the stereo instrument output split to 2 tracks or combined in a mono track ... 😉

Thus I think the bounce to track with the dialog and all its options is much more transparent and gives each user the configuration possibilites that he requires! By the way you can define your own parameter presets for your workflows.

Edited by marled

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That's why, in addition to what we have already, I proposed *A NEW OPTION* to move or copy a MIDI clip or it's portion to a new place in the project with MIDI-to-audio bounce on the fly (no bounce dialog window pop-up, just pure WYHIWYG - effects and the tail applied, same as to what does freezing output) without any change to the other two - freeze and Bounce to Tracks - methods. Then each of us could use his preferred method.

The new method could speed up the workflow considerably in some cases during music production... EDIT: repeating myself but sometimes just all I need is open a synth and produce several audio clips with it without closing of freezing the synth.

Edited by chris.r

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40 minutes ago, chris.r said:

no bounce dialog window pop-up, just pure WYHIWYG 

 

Yeah man. With an option to change it's preferences in the "Freeze option" tab - or "Bounce to track" in the Track Tab to disable the "Wet or Dry." In my workflow I'd prefer a dry clip with this. 

I +1000 this feature!

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26 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

 

Yeah man. With an option to change it's preferences in the "Freeze option" tab - or "Bounce to track" in the Track Tab to disable the "Wet or Dry." In my workflow I'd prefer a dry clip with this. 

I +1000 this feature!

Dry audio output and then just copy the content of fx bin over to the new track? Could work... and there's nothing like that in Cakewalk iirc.

The tail would have to be added anyway because of the synth's internal effects.

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54 minutes ago, chris.r said:

Dry audio output and then just copy the content of fx bin over to the new track? Could work... and there's nothing like that in Cakewalk iirc.

The tail would have to be added anyway because of the synth's internal effects.

You'll have the option to select the convertion with or without the effects or clip tail.

I think it'll be an neat feature to our workflow and creativity. 

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In Cakewalk for now, after converting instrument track to dry audio track, copying all audio FX to dry audio track seemed to me a bit stepwise and I wrote a script to make it easier. You can copy & paste Multiple Audio FX by this shortcut script:

Copy & Paste Multiple FX.ahkCopy & Paste Multiple FX.exe

Just move the mouse cursor on the top of the FX Bin like that:

fxx.png.a3f4c88e170b281534ca0ecc1360590c.png

Shortcuts:
F6: Copy Multiple Audio FX
F7: Paste Multiple Audio FX

You can use these commands to apply multiple FX to dry audio track while waiting developers to make that feature.

Edited by murat k.

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12 minutes ago, murat k. said:

In Cakewalk for now, after converting instrument track to dry audio track, copying all audio FX to dry audio track seemed to me a bit stepwise and I wrote a script to make it easier. You can copy & paste Multiple Audio FX by this shortcut script:

Copy & Paste Multiple FX.ahk 317 B · 0 downloads

Copy & Paste Multiple FX.exe 1.06 MB · 0 downloads

Just move the mouse cursor on the top of the FX Bin like that:

fxx.png.a3f4c88e170b281534ca0ecc1360590c.png

Shortcuts:
F6: Copy Multiple Audio FX
F7: Paste Multiple Audio FX

You can use these commands to apply multiple FX to dry audio track while waiting developers to make that feature. 

Nice one. 

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