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Morten Saether

[CLOSED] Cakewalk 2020.10 Early Access

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On 10/26/2020 at 7:53 PM, msmcleod said:

Articulations aren't tied to any clip - they live in their own one.  So you need to make sure they're selected if moving stuff.

What is the benefit of having articulations independent from clips? It seems just confusing for me.

For my workflow it would be defintitely more useful and intuitive to have articulations inside clips, so they copy/move/delete etc. with clips.

(Especially when there is no indication of artictulations in the Track view. Right now it means e.g. that when I delete a clip from a track, that place seems empty, but when I record a new material, the old "forgotten" articulations will affect it...)

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I would ask that everyone who is reporting problems or suggestions in this thread preface their remarks with

"I really appreciate the effort the developers have put into the significant improvements that are being debuted in this EarlyAccess release."

Fwiw.

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The articulation lane 'snaps' closed every time I click a note in the piano roll. I must keep re-opening it after every midi note edit.

Is this intended behavior?

 

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Does Cakewalk instruments comes with their own keyswitches? (like Legato, pizzicato, staccato etc.) 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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I have noticed that when I use Shattered Glass Audio - Pheonix VST effect in a project, CBB becomes very unstable & will crash quite quickly.

Sometimes straight to the desktop, sometimes with a unhandled exception dialog box.

I've not yet been able to pin down an exact mechanism for creating a crash but here's a few ways that work sometimes while playing;

- disable / enable the plugin

- remove a neighboring plugin

- disable / enable  a neighboring plugin

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7 hours ago, DocBob said:

More key switch articulation map files.

Here are 16 files - each are channel specific and work in Octave 0.  They will work with any patch that uses Octave 0 for keyswitching - Garritan Personal Orchestra NOTATION patch, and Spitfire BBC orchestra... I don't know about other Spitfire products but they would likely work as well.

It took me about an hour to make and test, no big deal. Whatever refinements Cakewalk comes up with this is a good starting point. 

 

Be aware that when Garritan say octave 0, in Cakewalk it is octave 2. Cakewalk starts with note 0 being in octave 0. Very often, note 0 is in octave -1.

Cakewalk doesn't have negative octave numbers. Garritan keyswitches start 2 octaves up, because most people don't have keyboards big enough to go to the 2 lowest octaves. So playing live/recording would be difficult.

You have to be careful with that. With these maps, to use them with Garritan you need to add 24 to all the note numbers.

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Articulation Maps - Suggestions and Requests and Ideas.

1) Let maps take the channel from the track. Configurable option? Otherwise major problems with Kontakt and the like.
2) With the editor, be able to specify defaults for Kind, Channel, Play At with new MIDI Events.
3) How about "Duplicate map with new channel number."
4) Is it difficult to implement MIDI Learn from the Virtual Controller?

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5 minutes ago, Nigel Mackay said:

Articulation Maps - Suggestions and Requests and Ideas.

1) Let maps take the channel from the track. Configurable option? Otherwise major problems with Kontakt and the like.
 

In the articulation map, if you check "Transpose", I believe this should cause the articulation map to get the channel from the associated MIDI track.

What I have noticed that if you start playback in the middle of the articulation map, and MIDI chase (with notes) is enabled (in Preferences | Project | MIDI), that MIDI events associated with that articulation map is sent on channel 1 rather than the channel from the associated MIDI track. (I have reported this elsewhere in this thread)

One other thing I have noticed with starting playback in the middle of a articulation map, that the MIDI events in the clip is sent before the MIDI events associated with that articulation map.  The MIDI events associated with that articulation map should be sent first before any clip MIDI events.

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3 minutes ago, Promidi said:

In the articulation map, if you check "Transpose", I believe this should cause the articulation map to get the channel from the associated MIDI track.

 

Documentation says that if checked and the channel strip is transposed, the map will be transposed. Makes sense.
Check box would say "Take channel from track."

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12 hours ago, fonolit said:

What is the benefit of having articulations independent from clips? It seems just confusing for me.

For my workflow it would be defintitely more useful and intuitive to have articulations inside clips, so they copy/move/delete etc. with clips.

(Especially when there is no indication of artictulations in the Track view. Right now it means e.g. that when I delete a clip from a track, that place seems empty, but when I record a new material, the old "forgotten" articulations will affect it...)

I would have preferred a simpler way to simplify the inserting of articulations. In my vision only the visibility of the articulations would be changed, i.e. they would stay MIDI notes in the clip. This would avoid all the trouble with editing and moving, because it would be apparently the user's job. And changing an articulation would be 100% the same as changing a common MIDI note (e.g. selecting shows the contents in the Event Inspector).

So what do I mean with visibility? I imagine something like an articulation lane that is always above (or below) in the PRV. The user can define the note values that are displayed in the articulation lane (some kind of map as in the current implementation). But as I said the articulations would be treated as simple note values and thus behave the same when moving clips/notes, deleting/exporting/importing clips!

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5 hours ago, Nigel Mackay said:

....Cakewalk doesn't have negative octave numbers. Garritan keyswitches start 2 octaves up, because most people don't have keyboards big enough to go to the 2 lowest octaves. So playing live/recording would be difficult...

This is configurable - in this case for Garritan, set it to -2:

image.png.6c9a9c08fcc40fc8b9775f5458dbf26d.png

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MIDI CC sent out from the Reason Rack plugin doesn't seem to work in Cakewalk. For example using the Pulsar Dual LFO with the MIDI Out device and connecting the CV from Pulsar to the CV to MIDI connection in MIDI Out. Cakewalk registers that there is MIDI getting sent out because I see the meter in the MIDI track and I see the MIDI light signal in DS Thorn synth flashing at the rate of the LFO from Pulsar, but when I click MIDI Learn on anything, it doesn't learn the MIDI, it just keeps waiting.

This works in Ableton Live 10. This also works if I use a VST Wrapper in Cakewalk that is VST2 and load Reason Rack within it, then the MIDI Learn works. It would seem that the VST3 implementation in Cakewalk doesn't support it yet. Searching online this issue it seems that this is a recent new function to the VST3 standard that was brought over from VST2 and some DAW's updated their VST3 implementation that includes this. Ableton and Reaper didn't have this function before but with their new updates they do now.

Can you please update the VST3 implementation in Cakewalk so it has the latest VST3 function to accept sending MIDI CC through plugins. I tested this with the new 2020.10 Early Access build and it doesn't work and doesn't work in the released 2020.09 version either.

Edited by Hillmy

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8 hours ago, Nigel Mackay said:

Be aware that when Garritan say octave 0, in Cakewalk it is octave 2. Cakewalk starts with note 0 being in octave 0. Very often, note 0 is in octave -1.

Cakewalk doesn't have negative octave numbers. Garritan keyswitches start 2 octaves up, because most people don't have keyboards big enough to go to the 2 lowest octaves. So playing live/recording would be difficult.

You have to be careful with that. With these maps, to use them with Garritan you need to add 24 to all the note numbers.

Garritan Notation patches have their key switches in Octave 0. The Standard patches have them an octave below the instruments’ ranges. I much prefer the former because I use a NanoKey keyboard set to that octave for switching and don’t have to remember where the switches are. 

The proof of the pudding is that the .artmap files I uploaded actually work as expected. No adding anything to the numbers. Base 0 set in preferences.

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2 hours ago, msmcleod said:

This is configurable - in this case for Garritan, set it to -2:

Thanks for all the hard work you are doing in getting this beta up to speed.

I've written up "tweak" notes for adjusting the midi note number for various instrument libraries.  Currently Cinesample Kontakt and HWBrass Play are same, VSL Synchron is different, Spitfire and OrchTools is different.  I often mix these instruments in projects.  And I prefer to not have to tweak keyswitch base in each library.

While I can certainly live with my tweak notes, having a means of tweaking the base in each articulation map would be helpful.

The developers are brave folks.  Creating and supporting and understanding articulation maps will challenge all of us.

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26 minutes ago, DocBob said:

Garritan Notation patches have their key switches in Octave 0. The Standard patches have them an octave below the instruments’ ranges. I much prefer the former because I use a NanoKey keyboard set to that octave for switching and don’t have to remember where the switches are. 

The proof of the pudding is that the .artmap files I uploaded actually work as expected. No adding anything to the numbers. Base 0 set in preferences.

Hmmm. Here is a screenshot of GPO - Wet - Section Strings - Cellos - Cello KS Combo. So we don't seem to be talking about the same GPO.

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15 minutes ago, Steve Harder said:

While I can certainly live with my tweak notes, having a means of tweaking the base in each articulation map would be helpful.

I have asked for this in a list of other requests.

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10 hours ago, Nigel Mackay said:

Be aware that when Garritan say octave 0, in Cakewalk it is octave 2. Cakewalk starts with note 0 being in octave 0. Very often, note 0 is in octave -1.

That's why I have always my base octave set to -2 in preferences in Cakewalk. I believe it was so by default in old Cakewalks and Sonar versions.

 

Edit: ...and then I have read the rest of this thread... :D 

Edited by chris.r
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Articulation Maps is a very useful feature.

I will report it because it is in a strange state.
I displayed the input menu by right-clicking, but sometimes I can't input at all.
In this case, the menu will not disappear no matter what you do at this time.
menu2.png.b94a918d40cf3a587b765c9723f46a54.png

When I finished Cakewalk in this state, the menu was discolored and remained. I couldn't forcibly terminate it until I restarted the PC.menu1.png.8f421a2e8e2af95fa66c0c4cdffc85c5.png

Since this phenomenon appears suddenly, the conditions for occurrence are unknown, but it occurs regardless of the project.

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24 minutes ago, Toy said:

Articulation Maps is a very useful feature.

I will report it because it is in a strange state.
I displayed the input menu by right-clicking, but sometimes I can't input at all.
In this case, the menu will not disappear no matter what you do at this time.
 

When I finished Cakewalk in this state, the menu was discolored and remained. I couldn't forcibly terminate it until I restarted the PC.

Since this phenomenon appears suddenly, the conditions for occurrence are unknown, but it occurs regardless of the project.

Probably Windows giving trouble. Might never happen again.

Did you try to close Cakewalk using Task Manager? A bit better than restarting.

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