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Brian Nixon

Drum-Kit Clip Notes Always Black and Unchangeable

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@Colin Nicholls Here is a way to demonstrate my issue.  Switch to Mercury theme (but the issue is the same in all themes). Pick any MIDI track with notes in a clip. Insert the Soft Synth TTS-1 (since this results in the demonstrating the identical problem I have with MIDI hardware drum kits).  Using the Inspector, change the track's output to Cakewalk TTS-1.  Change the Bank to 15360-Preset Rhythm, and change the Patch to Standard Set.  Click on the Track Number or the clip itself to select the clip.   The notes become black and the foreground color of the notes can't be changed.  Go to the Inspector and try to change the Clip foreground color.  Uncheck the Use Track Colors box.  The color can be changed in the Foreground properties box, but the actual note foreground color in the clip does not change to match the color in the Foreground properties color box.   VST's such as Session Drummer will behave differently because they are not duplicating the functionality of a MIDI hardware drum kit the same way that the TTS-1 soft synth 15360-Preset Rhythm bank does.

Edited by Brian Nixon
Hit enter and posted before I even got started typing

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1 hour ago, Brian Nixon said:

Switch to Mercury theme. Pick any MIDI track with notes in a clip. Insert the Soft Synth TTS-1 (since this results in the demonstrating the identical problem I have with MIDI hardware drum kits).  Using the Inspector, change the track's output to Cakewalk TTS-1.  Change the Bank to 15360-Preset Rhythm, and change the Patch to Standard Set.  Click on the Track Number or the clip itself to select the clip.   The notes become black and the foreground color of the notes can't be changed. 

I've duplicated your scenario following your excellent instructions. When I select (Track 1), I see the notes as black diamonds:

image.png.024f8c7567b496d9f979e36c6e7b0feb.png

Does this match what you're describing?

I also copied the MIDI clips into the MIDI track that was created when I inserted the instance of TTS-1 (Track 3). When I select Track 3, I see the normal note display, with color:

image.png.851b8f790c162626137fb0cce778376a.png

I'll be honest and say I have no idea why Track 1 is displaying differently.

 

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@Colin NichollsYes.  I was focused on the clips in the track view, and didn't look at the Piano Roll view.  You are showing what I was questioning--the black foreground notes on the dark gray background clip on Track 1 in the Track View on both of the graphics that you posted above.  I can use the Inspector to change the background color of those clips, but not the black foreground notes color of the clip.  If I change the background color of the drumkit clips only, then they stand out like a sore thumb compared to the background color of all of the remaining clips that aren't drumkits.  Anyway, black notes look awesome on the background colors of the clips in your new Flat White theme.   Since you are the author of the Young Lady's Primer, I thought you might be interested in this anomaly.   When you copied the MIDI clip to MIDI track 3 and see the green color, this makes sense.  If you then went on to change track 3 to TTS-1 15360-Preset Rhythm Standard Set, then the green color notes in track 3 would change to black notes also.  Thanks again for taking time to look into this!!

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I get two takeaways from this:

1) There's one more constraint added to the list for choosing clip colors that work in all scenarios

2) I have no idea why the display is changing to diamonds but I think we should. @scook, do you happen to have any insight?

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The short answer is IDK. This is a question for Noel or maybe David Baay.

It appears to go back some time possibly pre-SONAR.

That said, it may be picking up its foreground color from preferences. The last time I messed with those was SONAR 8.5

I do not set patches using the Channel, Bank, Patch drop downs so would not ordinarily see the clips change.

Instead I approach TTS-1 like every other soft synth and set the patch in the plug-in UI.

Also don't have any MIDI hardware synths.

Using a drum map prevents clips from changing too.

With a drum map not only do clips retain their normal appearance in the Track View but there is a switch for the Drum Grid Pane to switch between showing note icons and note duration. The Note Pane does not have a similar feature.

 

 

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I believe this behavior may be modified when using an instrument definition.

Again not having MIDI hardware this is difficult to test but there is a drum flag which may be toggled in the ins editor (or any text editor)

Here is where is an image of an instrument definition with the drum flag enabled.

 

RQbVMq4.png

Make a copy of master.ins in "%appdata%\Cakewalk Core" before playing with it (I believe the program will do this too but I take a belt and suspenders approach when messing with things I know very little about).

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I think the Inspector - Clip color section is broken for PRV drum diamonds. you have to change them in Preferences - Colors - Clips - MIDI Tracks #, #, #... Forground.

The numbering system is exclusive to MIDI tracks, so if your 1st MIDI track is track 5 you would change MIDI Tracks 1, 11, 15.... Forground.

In one case this didn't work exactly as expected so you may need to experiment with the track numbers in Preferences.

I've also noticed the PRV note outlines are sometimes black, so when the diamonds are zoomed way out they look black no matter what color you make them.

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Yeah, I suspected it might still be a functioning preference settings. This feels like a very old feature that was ignored when the UI changed in X1.

Regardless, I submitted a feature request to either:

  • activate the clip foreground in the inspector or
  • treat these clips like every other rather than force the user to deal with the current situation (my preference)

and consider adding an option to show duration just like the Drum Grid in both the track view and PRV.

 

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  • Great Idea 1

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On 10/22/2020 at 9:29 AM, scook said:

I take a belt and suspenders approach when messing with things I know very little about

Steve, I find it hard to believe that there is anything in regard to Cakewalk that you know "very little about!"

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