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I want to build a computer for Cakewalk


Konskoo

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Here is an example of the full Arturia Piano V. These sounds are available in the Analog Lab, but with just the assigned macros controls for the controller to shape the sound. The full tweakability is only available in the full version of Piano V.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, John said:

 

This was a revelation. I happen to have that along with quite a few others. Some expensive some not. None have been able to play a  particular piece as well as the melda one. I never used it before but your post motivated  me to try it.  It sounds very good but more important there is no machine sound to it or very little. It is a great piano!

Thank you for posting this. 

Brian mentioned that the piano is free. True, but MSoundFactory (required) is not free.

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abacab, I have read your messages, I explored links you gave. I have watched video you gave. Thank you. I took into attention.

abacab, how to connect MIDI keyboard controller? To Audio Interface or to USB port of motherboard of computer?

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9 minutes ago, Konskoo said:

abacab, I have read your messages, I explored links you gave. I have watched video you gave. Thank you. I took into attention.

abacab, how to connect MIDI keyboard controller? To Audio Interface or to USB port of motherboard of computer?

I have a Casio PX5s and have connected it both ways. I did not notice a difference myself. 

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3 hours ago, Konskoo said:

abacab, I have read your messages, I explored links you gave. I have watched video you gave. Thank you. I took into attention.

abacab, how to connect MIDI keyboard controller? To Audio Interface or to USB port of motherboard of computer?

Modern USB MIDI controllers are most simply connected to a USB port on the computer. You could use a 5-pin MIDI DIN connector on the audio interface and keyboard if available. There is no advantage to using a 5-pin MIDI DIN connector, except to provide MIDI compatibility to legacy devices without USB MIDI.

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On 10/20/2020 at 12:14 AM, InstrEd said:

I have a Casio PX5s and have connected it both ways. I did not notice a difference myself. 

InstrEd, thank you. I have read about Casio PX-5S. Nice thing. I took into attention.

On 10/20/2020 at 3:10 AM, abacab said:

Modern USB MIDI controllers are most simply connected to a USB port on the computer. You could use a 5-pin MIDI DIN connector on the audio interface and keyboard if available. There is no advantage to using a 5-pin MIDI DIN connector, except to provide MIDI compatibility to legacy devices without USB MIDI.

abacab, thank you. I took into consideration.

abacab, if MIDI keyboard controller has USB interface I can connect it to USB port on the computer. Does any audio interfaces have USB port to connect MIDI keyboard controller via USB to audio interface? Or such audio interfaces don't exist?

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38 minutes ago, Konskoo said:

 Does any audio interfaces have USB port to connect MIDI keyboard controller via USB to audio interface? Or such audio interfaces don't exist?

Not that I'm aware of. There would  essentially be no point in connecting a USB keyboard through an audio interface, since the USB keyboard connection directly to the computer's USB port is available.

If more USB ports are needed, most modern motherboards have optional header pins for direct connection to an extra USB  expansion bracket on the rear of the PC case. Otherwise you can add a USB hub.

The reason some audio interfaces have 5-pin MIDI ports is to allow legacy MIDI devices that lack USB to connect to the computer.

Most modern MIDI controllers are USB compatible, so it's generally not an issue.

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10 hours ago, abacab said:

Not that I'm aware of. There would  essentially be no point in connecting a USB keyboard through an audio interface, since the USB keyboard connection directly to the computer's USB port is available.

If more USB ports are needed, most modern motherboards have optional header pins for direct connection to an extra USB  expansion bracket on the rear of the PC case. Otherwise you can add a USB hub.

The reason some audio interfaces have 5-pin MIDI ports is to allow legacy MIDI devices that lack USB to connect to the computer.

Most modern MIDI controllers are USB compatible, so it's generally not an issue.

abacab, thank you. I took into attention.

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My conclusions.

1. The 5-pin MIDI DIN interface of MIDI keyboard controller is outdated.
1.1. I will not buy MIDI keyboard controller which has 5-pin MIDI DIN interface.

2. USB interface of MIDI keyboard controller is actual.
2.1. I will buy MIDI keyboard controller which has USB interface.
2.2. I will connect MIDI keyboard controller via USB interface to USB port of computer.

3. When I press key on MIDI keyboard controller it sends MIDI instruction to computer.
3.1. MIDI instruction is data.
3.2. The amount of date from MIDI keyboard controller to computer is less then USB 2.0 bandwidth.
3.3. If I will connect MIDI keyboard controller which has USB 2.0 interface to USB 2.0 port of computer, there will not be bottle neck of data transfer.
3.4. The bandwidth of USB 3.0 and next is higher then USB 2.0 bandwidth.
3.5. USB 2.0 bandwidth already implements my need of data transfer.
3.6. I don't need MIDI keyboard controller with USB 3.0 interface and higher.
3.7. I will buy MIDI keyboard controller which has USB 2.0 interface.

4. The 5-pin MIDI DIN port on some audio interfaces intends to connect legacy MIDI devices through audio interface to computer.
4.1. I will not buy audio interface which has 5-pin MIDI DIN port.
4.2. I will buy audio interface which has no 5-pin MIDI DIN port.

abacab, am I right with conclusions?

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I know you asked abacab, but I'm with you on every point except 4.1 and 4.2.

There is no need to go out of your way to avoid audio interfaces that have 5-pin MIDI, rather you don't need to be concerned with whether it has one or not. There is no downside to an interface having one of those ports. Many (most?) interfaces still include them because they are not expensive to include and there are still many MIDI-capable devices in use that use the connector.

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10 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

I know you asked abacab, but I'm with you on every point except 4.1 and 4.2.

There is no need to go out of your way to avoid audio interfaces that have 5-pin MIDI, rather you don't need to be concerned with whether it has one or not. There is no downside to an interface having one of those ports. Many (most?) interfaces still include them because they are not expensive to include and there are still many MIDI-capable devices in use that use the connector.

I agree with Starship Krupa's  assessment. There is no point to avoiding the 5-pin MIDI connections. It won't cause any problems and should not cost extra.

Most controllers have them, in addition to USB. You never know if you might acquire an external MIDI sound module someday (no USB) that you want to connect the controller directly to, say for live use without a computer. Then it might be handy to have it! USB MIDI is only available on computer and  mobile devices.

MIDI 1.0 is a serial data connection that runs at low speed 31,250 bps.  http://personal.kent.edu/~sbirch/Music_Production/MP-II/MIDI/midi_physical_layer.htm

Even USB 1.1 offers far more bandwidth than is required for the MIDI spec. My MIDI controller is plugged into a USB 2.0 port, but the system shows it running at USB 1.1 Full Speed, as MIDI ports are generally backwards compatible with older versions of USB.

From MIDI.org to the USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF), the goal was device interoperability. More on USB MIDI basics are described here: https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/basic-of-usb

USB speeds that I commonly see used:

  • USB 1.1 --> 1.5 Mbit/s (Low Speed) 12 Mbit/s (Full Speed) --> Keyboards/Mice/MIDI controllers, etc.
  • USB 2.0 --> 1.5 Mbit/s (Low Speed) 12 Mbit/s (Full Speed) 480 Mbit/s (High Speed) --> external disk drives/flash drives/audio interfaces
  • USB 3.0 --> 5 Gbit/s (SuperSpeed) --> Higher bandwidth for external disk drives/flash drives/audio interfaces. 3.0 drives make backups much faster than 2.0 drives!
  • USB 3.1 --> 10 Gbit/s (SuperSpeed+) --> Haven't used a device with this speed yet, but I have the USB 3.1 ports available on my computer!
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Starship Krupa, abacab, thank you. I took into attention.

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I made next conclusions and next questions appeared.

1. I need to buy MIDI keyboard controller which has both:
1.1. USB interface.
1.2. The 5-pin MIDI DIN Out port.

1.3. Does MIDI keyboard controller need to have 5-pin MIDI DIN In port?

2. Not to buy MIDI keyboard controller which don't has one of this things:
2.1. USB interface.
2.2. The 5-pin MIDI DIN Out port.

3. I need to buy audio interface which has 5-pin MIDI DIN In port.

3.1. Does audio interface need to have 5-pin MIDI DIN Out port?

4. Not to buy audio interface which has no 5-pin MIDI DIN In port.

Am I right with conclusions? Please help with questions 1.3., 3.1.

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abacab, at https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/20587-how-to-reduce-latency/ you wrote your System spec:

On 10/21/2020 at 8:20 PM, abacab said:

Using audio interface: Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Gen 3 USB2, with Focusrite USB ASIO output.

System spec:

  • Intel i5-9600K 6 cores locked at 4.6GHz on Asus Prime Z390-A motherboard.
  • Intel integrated UHD graphics 630
  • RAM 16GB DDR4 at 2666 MHz XMP.
  • SSD Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SATA 6 Gb/s, benchmark sequential read 555 MB/s.
  • Avira Pro AV real-time scanning active.
  • Windows 10 Pro 2004

abacab, which processor fan do you have in this computer?

Which power supply unit do you have in this computer?

Which computer case do you have in this configuration?

Which case fans do you have in this computer?

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Starship Krupa, which computer configuration do you have and you use it with Cakewalk?

Edited by Konskoo
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10 minutes ago, Konskoo said:

Starship Krupa, abacab, thank you. I took into attention.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I made next conclusions and next questions appeared.

1. I need to buy MIDI keyboard controller which has both:
1.1. USB interface.
1.2. The 5-pin MIDI DIN Out port.

1.3. Does MIDI keyboard controller need to have 5-pin MIDI DIN In port?

2. Not to buy MIDI keyboard controller which don't has one of this things:
2.1. USB interface.
2.2. The 5-pin MIDI DIN Out port.

3. I need to buy audio interface which has 5-pin MIDI DIN In port.

3.1. Does audio interface need to have 5-pin MIDI DIN Out port?

4. Not to buy audio interface which has no 5-pin MIDI DIN In port.

Am I right with conclusions? Please help with questions 1.3., 3.1.

1.3 -No.

3.1 -No.

You won't NEED any MIDI 5-pin ports, either in or out, to setup your  DAW as you have specified.

My earlier suggestion  implied that some controllers and interfaces have them. Nice to have, but usually not needed.

Some scenarios where a user might find them useful, but I don't see your plan as requiring them:

  • a. An old MIDI keyboard  synthesizer without USB --> 5-pin MIDI Out to audio interface with 5-pin MIDI In. The interface provides the needed USB connection to the PC so the keyboard synth can act as a MIDI controller for the DAW.
  • b. The extra 5-pin MIDI In/Out on the keyboard  would be useful if you were also sending a MIDI sequence from the DAW PC out to an external MIDI hardware synthesizer, as in  "a"   above. For example connections would be: DAW PC USB <=> USB Audio Interface with 5-pin MIDI In/Out <=> 5-pin MIDI In/Out connected to old MIDI keyboard/synthesizer. In this case the Keyboard could send MIDI to DAW as a controller, as well as receive and play back a MIDI sequence from the DAW using its own internal sound source instead of the virtual instrument in the DAW.

In any case you would not need to use the 5-pin setup, unless you plan to acquire some old external MIDI gear. Even then you could still buy a separate USB MIDI interface for that purpose if you ever needed that.

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1 hour ago, Konskoo said:

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abacab, at https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/20587-how-to-reduce-latency/ you wrote your System spec:

abacab, which processor fan do you have in this computer?

Which power supply unit do you have in this computer?

Which computer case do you have in this configuration?

Which case fans do you have in this computer?

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Processor fan: You need to find the cooler that fits your CPU processor. I use the air cooled stock Intel fan for socket 1151 CPU. Temps run 40C at idle up to 80C at 100% use. Motherboard controlled fan speed.

Power supply: 600 watt EVGA 600BQ, semi modular.

Computer case: Nothing special. Full tower generic aluminum ATX form factor case, with removable drive bays. Have used for 3 separate builds in 15 years.

Case fans: Need sized for the case you are using. I have motherboard controlled case fan speed with: 2x ARCTIC F8 PWM - 80 mm PWM Case Fan, PWM-Signal regulates Fan Speed (4-pin), Very Quiet Motor, Fan Speed: 300-2000 RPM

Edited by abacab
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abacab, thank you. I have read both your messages. I took into consideration.

Questions appeared.

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1. With this computer configuration what VSTs do you use? What music do you make?

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10 hours ago, abacab said:

I use the air cooled stock Intel fan for socket 1151 CPU.

2. This processor fan was sold together with processor Intel i5-9600K in one box? What is the mark of this processor fan?

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10 hours ago, abacab said:

I have motherboard controlled case fan speed with: 2x ARCTIC F8 PWM - 80 mm PWM Case Fan, PWM-Signal regulates Fan Speed (4-pin), Very Quiet Motor, Fan Speed: 300-2000 RPM

3. Please clarify how much case fans do you have in this computer?

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4. With this fans: processor fan, fan of power supply unit, case fans - do you have noise?

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10 hours ago, abacab said:

Power supply: 600 watt EVGA 600BQ, semi modular.

5. Why 600 watt? You have no dedicated graphics card. Why not less than 600 watt?

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10 hours ago, abacab said:

Temps run 40C at idle up to 80C at 100% use.

6. How do you see it? Where do you see it?

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On 10/21/2020 at 8:20 PM, abacab said:

SSD Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SATA 6 Gb/s, benchmark sequential read 555 MB/s.

7. Do you made two logical disks: disk C and disk D?

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12 hours ago, Konskoo said:

abacab, thank you. I have read both your messages. I took into consideration.

Questions appeared.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. With this computer configuration what VSTs do you use? What music do you make?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. This processor fan was sold together with processor Intel i5-9600K in one box? What is the mark of this processor fan?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Please clarify how much case fans do you have in this computer?

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4. With this fans: processor fan, fan of power supply unit, case fans - do you have noise?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. Why 600 watt? You have no dedicated graphics card. Why not less than 600 watt?

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6. How do you see it? Where do you see it?

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7. Do you made two logical disks: disk C and disk D?

1.  Synthesizers and samplers: Too many to list all, but my favorites are AIR Music Loom 2, Amadeus Symphonic Orchestra for Kontakt 6 Player, Applied Acoustics Chromaphone 2, Arturia Analog Lab, Arturia Pigments, Cakewalk Rapture, IK Multimedia Hammond B3X, MODO Bass, Philharmonik 2 and SampleTank 4 MAX, iZotope Iris 2, KV331 Audio SynthMaster 2 and SynthMaster One, Seaweed Audio Fathom Pro, Tracktion Biotek 2, Waves Element 2 and Flow Motion, XLN Audio Addictive Drums 2 and Addictive Keys Grand Piano.

I heard Bach played on a Moog synth in 1975 and was immediately hooked! I'm an amateur who bought his first synthesizer in 1984, and then proceeded as a hobby to focus on sound design with mostly electronic and ambient music, with environmental and cinematic soundscapes in mind (I like Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream,  Jarre,   Vangelis, Hans Zimmer, etc.). I enjoy layering sounds from different instruments to get interesting results.

But I do also enjoy traditional acoustic and orchestral music, as well as rock, folk, blues, jazz, funk, country, etc. All good music is welcome! Band in a Box can expand your musical horizons!

2. Intel processors marked "K" (unlocked clock ratio) do not ship with a factory cooling fan. Must purchase cooler separately, and a stock Intel unit is available. The consumer market for "K' processors typically will install custom aftermarket cooling, such as liquid, etc. for overclocking.

3. I did. It is 2x (one front and one rear) intake in front, and exhaust in rear, for case cross ventilation.

4. Not much fan noise as the system functions near idle most of the time. Playing a single piano barely registers on the CPU meter.

5. 600 watt PSU for growth and max efficiency. I wanted the option to add a dedicated GPU later. Plus keeping the load at 50% will let it run cooler and should help to extend the PSU life, have a quieter fan,  so best to have near 2x what your expected continuous load is. For example 300 watt load --> 600 watt PSU. Besides this one was only $11 more than the same product with 500 watts. See the article "How to choose a power supply" https://www.newegg.com/insider/how-to-choose-a-pc-power-supply-buying-guide/

Quote

A power supply will only pull the electricity demanded by your PC’s components – and so while it might be a waste of money up front to purchase a larger power supply than you need, it won’t cost you any more to operate your PC because of it.

Power supply calculator here: https://www.newegg.com/tools/power-supply-calculator/?cm_sp=NeweggInsider-_-BuyingGuides-_-ChoosePSU

6. HWiNFO64 (free) has temp/voltage/fans sensors view: https://www.hwinfo.com/

7: I use two physical Samsung SATA SSD drives "C: " EVO 860 500GB (OS/Programs) and "D:" QVO 860 1TB (Projects,  content, and samples), and one internal WD SATA HDD 7200RPM with 2 logical disks (for archives), plus a couple of WD Elements portable USB 3 drives for image backups.

You can add drives as you see the need, but I would start with 1 SSD for "C:" system drive, and a second drive "D:", either HDD or SSD, for projects,  and then an external USB 3 drive for image backups.

 

 

Edited by abacab
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abacab, I have read your answers on all my questions. Thank you. I took into attention.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

23 hours ago, abacab said:

I heard Bach played on a Moog synth in 1975 and was immediately hooked!

I understand you :)

23 hours ago, abacab said:

I'm an amateur who bought his first synthesizer in 1984, and then proceeded as a hobby to focus on sound design with mostly electronic and ambient music, with environmental and cinematic soundscapes in mind (I like Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream,  Jarre,   Vangelis, Hans Zimmer, etc.). I enjoy layering sounds from different instruments to get interesting results.

Understood :)

1 hour ago, Konskoo said:

I like Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream,  Jarre,   Vangelis, Hans Zimmer, etc

How nice, how nice :)

23 hours ago, abacab said:

But I do also enjoy traditional acoustic and orchestral music, as well as rock, folk, blues, jazz, funk, country, etc.

How nice, how nice :)

23 hours ago, abacab said:

All good music is welcome! Band in a Box can expand your musical horizons!

I understand you :)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

23 hours ago, abacab said:

2. Intel processors marked "K" (unlocked clock ratio) do not ship with a factory cooling fan. Must purchase cooler separately, and a stock Intel unit is available. The consumer market for "K' processors typically will install custom aftermarket cooling, such as liquid, etc. for overclocking.

 

On 10/23/2020 at 6:14 PM, abacab said:

I use the air cooled stock Intel fan for socket 1151 CPU.

abacab, please clarify. Please write exact name of this fan. Model. Letters, figures. I want to read about this fan.

Edited by Konskoo
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3 hours ago, Konskoo said:

Please write exact name of this fan. Model. Letters, figures. I want to read about this fan.

Intel Fan Heatsink Assembly Air 1151 Cooling BXTS15A

https://www.newegg.com/intel-bxts15a/p/N82E16835203026

Note: this fan can get noisy when running a heavy CPU load. The motherboard varies the fan RPM according to the processor temperature.

But under normal use, it remains mostly quiet. At idle it's nearly silent. I have to intentionally run a stress test to get all 6 cores in my processor to 100% usage for the fan to reach full speed. My normal workload never reaches that level, so for my purposes this cooler is fine.

Stress test: https://www.mersenne.org/download/

Quote

Performing a stress test is simple:

Download the software and unzip the files to your desired location.

Run the Prime95 executable and select "Just Stress Testing" when asked.

The default options are sufficient to do a well balanced stress test on the system.

Note: This cooler attaches from the top of the CPU socket with 4 push pins. Easy!

 Most aftermarket coolers require a bracket to be attached to the underside of the motherboard. This type is best to be installed when you first assemble the computer, because if you decide to add one later you would need to remove the motherboard from the case.

Edited by abacab
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abacab, thank you. I took into consideration.

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On 10/24/2020 at 5:17 PM, abacab said:

I use two physical Samsung SATA SSD drives "C: " EVO 860 500GB (OS/Programs) and "D:" QVO 860 1TB (Projects,  content, and samples)

1. On which drive you install VST?

2. samples - it is VST?

3. What is the difference between Projects and content?

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On 10/24/2020 at 5:17 PM, abacab said:

600 watt PSU for growth and max efficiency. I wanted the option to add a dedicated GPU later

4. What for you wanted dedicated GPU?

Edited by Konskoo
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6 hours ago, Konskoo said:

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1. On which drive you install VST?

2. samples - it is VST?

3. What is the difference between Projects and content?

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4. What for you wanted dedicated GPU?

1. On which drive you install VST?

Since VST are actually small .dll files, I leave them in folders on the "C:" drive.

My VST2 plug-ins go into a sub-folders in Program files like this one "C:\Program Files\VstPlugIns and this one  "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\VstPlugins". Whatever paths you choose need to be added to the Cakewalk VST scan path.

 VST3 have a standard sub-folder in Common Files "C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3". Cakewalk searches this VST3 path by default.

2. samples - it is VST?

VST plug-in installers can install additional content, including sample libraries, anywhere they like and it's up to the developer to let you choose the specific location at install time. Given the choice, I prefer to place all applications and plug-ins on my system drive, and all the extras on my secondary drive.

3. What is the difference between Projects and content?

Projects are the DAW project files that you save which contain the MIDI and audio that you recorded in the project, as well as all project and VST settings used. In the Cakewalk DAW these are known as ".cwp" files. This area will grow as you add more  projects.

Content is any extra samples, loops, one shots, MIDI patterns, etc., supplied by Cakewalk or any other 3rd party program or VST that you install. The VST should remember where this location is, otherwise you will get an error when the plug-in loads at run time.

This content can grow substantially over time, so it is best to  install it on your secondary drive, to avoid outgrowing the system drive. Image  backups of the system drive do not need to use up the extra space to store this relatively static content.

So regularly backup your system drive, and your project folders. But you should only need to backup the content occasionally  as it rarely changes, and is typically used as read-only.

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4. What for you wanted dedicated GPU?

I don't actually need one, as the CPU integrated Intel UHD graphics  works perfectly well,  but the developer for one of my synths has plans to add NVIDIA CUDA processing to accelerate the oscillators. CUDA is a unique parallel computing architecture developed by NVIDIA. The technology allows to significantly increase the computing power using GPU. But it only benefits a program written to take advantage of the feature.

So it's not just for pretty graphics! 😁

https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-zone

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abacab, thank you. I took into attention.

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On 10/27/2020 at 12:09 AM, abacab said:

So it's not just for pretty graphics!

Nice :)

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abacab, I want Samsung 970 EVO Plus. NVMe interface. PCI-E 3.0 x4. Connector: M.2. Flash memory type: V-NAND. Read speed: 3500 MB/s. Write speed: 3200 MB/s. Form factor: 2280.

I want two such drives. I want to do as you did. First drive: 500GB for operation system and programs. Second drive: 1TB for projects, content, and samples.

Will two Samsung 970 EVO Plus be suitable for my work with grand piano VST and mastering in Cakewalk?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have different questions.

About studio monitors, studio headphones, audio interface.

Questions about files. Which file format to use? WAV or else?

Questions about master bus. I want to have on master bus spectrum analyzer, hard limiter and other tools.

Questions about spectrum analyzer. Which to use?

Questions about oscilloscope. Do I need it?

Questions about grand piano VSTs.

I remember your words:

On 9/12/2020 at 6:33 PM, abacab said:

Besides the Q and A, this forum is also  knowledge base that others will reference, and it is indexed by Google.

How to make better? To make topics: one question - one topic?

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Also few moments.

When answer appears I don't receive notification on email. "Notify me of replies" flag is on. How to receive notification on email?

How do you made: symbol @ and my name Konskoo on black background? What this gives?

Edited by Konskoo
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