Drum Samples versus Drum VSTs

[brandon]

Is anyone using drum samples to create their drum tracks as opposed to using a VST? if so I would like to hear how they manage them i.e. do you insert them one sample at a time into a track or is there an automated way - could they be triggered by a midi keyboard for example? I assume some vst drums allow the import of drum samples but that sort of defeats the object as I like to be able to control one drum sound at a time. I find some VST interfaces not too user friendly.

Many thanks

[Nigel Mackay]

Regarding drum VSTs not being user friendly, you can use a separate MIDI track to each piece of equipment in a drum kit. Each one has its own MIDI note, so you can put only that note in the track. You can have a track just for right hand hitting snare, and another for left hand hitting snare, another for automatic alternating hands. (This of course depends on the VST, some have more choices than others.)

Using drum maps also helps a lot.

Someone else can help with the samples part of the question. 😀

[rsinger]

These days I use a drum vst, but many years ago I used samplers. Many drum vsts let you load your own samples. Many samplers are designed to be used with drum samples, but even if not, you should be able to load a sample per key. If you do that you probably want to follow a standard midi drum map.

[Starship Krupa]

My usual practice is these days to load single-hits into software samplers to make kits out of them, assuming I'm going to use them multiple times per song (usually the case with drums/percussion). This would be triggered by MIDI.

So to answer your question, I sometimes use samples loaded into a VSTi, a software sampler.

As for which way I do it, it kind of depends on how many times I'm going to use the sound in a song, and how. I've downloaded sample libraries that contained individual drum hits and turned them into drum kits by loading them into VSTi's, following the Standard GM mapping. I sometimes like to trigger clips of spoken dialog, and I will sometimes also load those clips into a software sampler instrument to be triggered by MIDI.

I took an online course in EDM production, and for the initial instruction in "beatmaking" the instructor had us use the sample content the other way, though, by dropping the individual hits in as audio clips on tracks in our DAW's, using the copy and paste features to repeat the measures.

This allows for greater flexibility as you may then use whatever clip editing features are available in your DAW to work on the clips before you start copying them. Fades, gain automation, envelope automation, filter automation, etc. Of course, some software samplers have those features, too.

It can also matter how well-edited the hits are to begin with, if you need to work on them at all before using them in your beats, adjusting gain, envelopes, or whatever.

If you find yourself with samples you regularly need to do work on, then get good at using them as clips. If it's faster and easier for you to think in terms of MIDI notes and drum machines, load 'em into a sampler.

[brandon]

Thanks guys.

[Scott Kendrick]

On 7/4/2020 at 3:00 PM, Starship Krupa said:

I sometimes use samples loaded into a VSTi, a software sampler.

Can you give a little more information about how to do this.. what VSTi or software sampler do you use? 

FOr background I capture Midi, then drive EZDrummer with it, but sometimes I want to use a sampled snare instead of what I'm able to do with EZD. It seems I should be able to point that midi file (or copy those midi notes into new midi and point it) at a sample sound for the snare for example. Just haven't found info on how to do this.

[Starship Krupa]

1 hour ago, Scott Kendrick said:

Can you give a little more information about how to do this.. what VSTi or software sampler do you use?

My favorite is Speedrum Lite. Sitala is another favorite. Both are freeware and quite simple to use.

As for how to do it, it couldn't be much simpler: set up Speedrum or Sitala as an instrument track, then drag and drop whatever audio sample(s) you wish to use onto the pad(s). You can drag and drop from Windows Explorer or from within Cakewalk (clips). They both have 16 pads, so it's straightforward to create an entire drum kit if that's what you'd like to do.

From there, trigger the note(s) with a MIDI track.

They're great for "one shots," but neither of them does velocity layering with multiple samples (yet).

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

On 7/4/2020 at 4:00 PM, Starship Krupa said:

My usual practice is these days to load single-hits into software samplers to make kits out of them, assuming I'm going to use them multiple times per song (usually the case with drums/percussion). This would be triggered by MIDI.

So to answer your question, I sometimes use samples loaded into a VSTi, a software sampler.

As for which way I do it, it kind of depends on how many times I'm going to use the sound in a song, and how. I've downloaded sample libraries that contained individual drum hits and turned them into drum kits by loading them into VSTi's, following the Standard GM mapping. I sometimes like to trigger clips of spoken dialog, and I will sometimes also load those clips into a software sampler instrument to be triggered by MIDI.

I took an online course in EDM production, and for the initial instruction in "beatmaking" the instructor had us use the sample content the other way, though, by dropping the individual hits in as audio clips on tracks in our DAW's, using the copy and paste features to repeat the measures.

This allows for greater flexibility as you may then use whatever clip editing features are available in your DAW to work on the clips before you start copying them. Fades, gain automation, envelope automation, filter automation, etc. Of course, some software samplers have those features, too.

It can also matter how well-edited the hits are to begin with, if you need to work on them at all before using them in your beats, adjusting gain, envelopes, or whatever.

If you find yourself with samples you regularly need to do work on, then get good at using them as clips. If it's faster and easier for you to think in terms of MIDI notes and drum machines, load 'em into a sampler.

I feel like this is is the equivalent to "eating a 1 pound steak versus 100 pieces of shoe leather." The feeling of accomplishment is much greater after eating the shoe leather.

[Maestro]

Drum Samples can be loaded into a Sampler and pitched easily.  This is important for music genres like Trap, Hip Hop, and others.  With a Drum VST, you're stuck automating the Tuning Knobs.  I know which workflow I personally prefer 😉 

Drum VST instrument is more useful for Acoustic Drums, where I don't need to pick Kick, Snare, or High Hats (the drums have to sound authentic).  For Electronic Music, I use samples and just load them into one shot samplers.

Both have their place.  It depends on how you produce and what type of music you're producing.

Strike 2 is too cheap, too often, to have to use something as bare bones as Sitala, though 😛 It lets you load, process, and mix your own samples too.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Maestro

[Tezza]

You don't have to use one or the other, you can use the different options together, I sometimes use NI's Studio drummer (drum VST) for the kick, snare and hi-hats and having access to the grooves which can be good starting points sometimes. I also use Battery 4 (sampler) for the cymbals, toms, percussion etc and  other stuff and also will place one shot samples directly on audio tracks, use them all together.

I think the key is making sure they all have a track to which you can then do your eq and compression and assign a send to an FX track reverb so they sound like they are all in the same room and gel with everything else, you can also choose your own reverb rather than being stuck with the drum VST reverb. For this to work, the samples have to be as dry as you can get them. I turn off all the processing in NI Studio Drummer before routing them to a track and choose relatively dry samples for battery as well.

I'll take the kick, snare and hi-hats and route them from Studio drummer to their own tracks then every cell in battery has it's own track and any one shot samples placed directly on audio tracks also of course have their own track.

For EDM, I tend to use just Battery. I would like to use Battery for everything but NI removed the acoustic kits from 4.  

To be honest, Battery is a bit overkill, so many cells and features, I would be happy with a simpler 16 cell drum sampler with multi out, since I would only be using it to trigger the samples and doing all processing in the DAW mixer. Mixcraft has one, Studio One also has one but Cakewalk does not and neither does Cubase. It's all you need really. It would also help if you can load different velocities of the same sample into each cell like Battery can do.

EDIT: I remember Cubase has Groove Agent, I remember playing around with it some time ago but I couldn't get it to work properly, might be worth another look.

There's probably third party drum samplers around the place that are small and functional.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Tezza

[Tezza]

On 7/5/2020 at 4:30 AM, Starship Krupa said:

I took an online course in EDM production, and for the initial instruction in "beatmaking" the instructor had us use the sample content the other way, though, by dropping the individual hits in as audio clips on tracks in our DAW's, using the copy and paste features to repeat the measures.

I think I recently did the same course. Took me back to the days of using Acid, all those individual samples placed on the timeline and using the volume slider on the sample for faux velocity changes. I don't think I could get that deep and repetitive into that again, I agree with what you said about midi notes and a drum sampler and think in terms of midi loops.

 

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

Another technique is recreating all the drum sounds using synths. If you know what you're doing, no one can tell the difference behind the walls of compression, gating and processing drums run into these days.

[Maestro]

On 1/10/2021 at 7:11 AM, Tezza said:

I think I recently did the same course. Took me back to the days of using Acid, all those individual samples placed on the timeline and using the volume slider on the sample for faux velocity changes. I don't think I could get that deep and repetitive into that again, I agree with what you said about midi notes and a drum sampler and think in terms of midi loops.

 

How productive this is really depends on the DAW.  Right now, I'd only do this in ACID Pro, Live, Pro Tools, or Samplitude Pro X.  In Cakewalk, I'd use a Sampler and use Samples where absolutely necessary.  There just isn't in terms of audio editing/manipulation in the arranger, and what is there simply isn't as accessible as those other DAWs make it.

Reversing, Pitching, etc. samples in ACID Pro is often 1 Keypress.  The Arranger automatically shows a more granular grid when you zoom in or out in the arranger.  It is like a Piano Roll for Samples.