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Morten Saether

[CLOSED] Cakewalk 2020.04 Early Access 2

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Thanks for the updates! All mentioned fixes that I have tested are functioning as expected.

For me, the minor problem of Arranger Section renaming continues. That is, right-clicking Section or clicking on Section Inspector menu dots and choosing "Rename..." does nothing.

Double-clicking  the section name in the inspector or hitting F2 does  work for renaming function, however.

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7 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@marled I'm not sure what you mean by "If a note starts a tiny bit earlier I want that it is included as a whole, not partially!"
When you mark a section in an arrangement its up to you to set the section boundaries as you expect it. Why not set the boundary of the section such that it included the lead in notes? Then it would include the original note ons when you render the arrangement. 
I don't think the program should second guess and arbitrarily include earlier notes.

I meant if a note's MIDI ON is a few ticks before the start of the section (less than 1/64), then I would prefer that the whole note is moved/copied with the same negative tick offset to the target position, instead that this note is being split. But yes, if it is split it can also be handled manually with slip edit, can't it?

To set the section boundaries before the begin of the section leads to the following problems IMO:

  1. It is impossible to choose the boundaries that they match the requirements of all tracks, i.e. slip edit is necessary in most cases.
  2. I guess there maybe conflicts when not all sections start at the same measure position, e.g. meas-01-00 or meas-04-48 or whatever, because a move or a copy of the sections leads to extra or missing beats (I have not yet tested this).
  3. It is not convenient when the sections don't start at the musically logical starting points like the markers.

I understand your attitude not wanting to guess which notes should be included. And myself, I really detest so much guessing in today's software (e.g. in Windows 10 😂). The only way here would be that the user defines the allowed ticks outside the sections, either globally, in the sections or in the track properties. But I think it would be to complicate, not only for the program, but also for the users. Thus the only practicable way is to do manual slip editing! 😉

x

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7 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@foldawayCan you post a detailed recipe for this and also include a link to a project with the problem?
Is this something new you have observed and is it project specific - can you reproduce it in a new project? 

Unforunately I'm unable to recreate this scenario now.    However, I've been successfully able to recreate an issue that I think could be in some way related.

Steps to orhpan VST FX parameter automation data:

- insert VST plugin on a channel
- record paramter automation for the inserted VST plugin
- drag move the VST plugin to a different channel
- delete the VST plugin

One issue I've had on a larger project was that I couldn't automate a plugin instances parameters that had already been automated & orphaned.  I'm not sure though if this (above) method is the same that led to the orphaning, in this project.

a few additional notes:

- when a VST plugin is moved to a different channel, its automation data remains in place. This is reconnected if the plugin is moved back to the original channel.
- if the VST plugin is deleted after being moved to a different channel the associated automation envelopes are not deleted & cannot be accessed or reassigned to a new instance of the plugin.  Whearas, if the VST plugin is not moved & deleted its automation envelopes are deleted.

Hope the above is clear & helps.

Cheers

 

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7 hours ago, msmcleod said:

@foldaway - I think this must be a project and/or plugin specific issue. 

It's working fine for me:

bus_automation_test.gif


 

Thanks for testing.  I'm not sure what happened but I can't recreate it now.  I've responded to Noel with some further details.

Cheers.

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I notice that using Slide or Nudge on Sections does not affect the sections themselves.

Choosing a section (and allowing it to select the associated clips) and then executing a Process/Slide or Process/Nudge will move the clips but not the associated section.

Perhaps this is as intended but I had expected otherwise and just wanted to point it out.

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Another note/curiosity on the protocol for section splitting of clips, specifically audio.

I notice that with  Auto Crossfades enabled and then executing a Split Clips at Boundaries will apply the fades as expected. However, when not doing this manual split clips operation first and then committing an arrangement that splits clips as needed, no such fades are applied, even with Auto Crossfades still enabled. I also notice that these audio splits do not honor the snap to zero crossings setting on the split locations on the audio clips. 

Both of these - auto crossfades and zero crossings settings - would be a "smart" default for the Arranger's commit split protocol for audio clips, in my opinion, and would provide for much less "clean up" after a Commit Arrangement call.

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Posted (edited)

Is it possible that,  when the smart tool is selected,  and you click the left mouse button on the arranger track, and the ALT key is held down, that the section be split at that point.

Think of what happens when you do the same to a clip  - Smart tool, hold Alt while hover over a clip splits the clip.

Also, can we have a keybinding available for section marker split and merge.

Edited by Promidi

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Hopefully it's just me but the Screen Sets are missing. I did run the Rollback and then installed the newest version, maybe I need to do it again? I do love that Screen Set option.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Jimbob Blues said:

Hopefully it's just me but the Screen Sets are missing. I did run the Rollback and then installed the newest version, maybe I need to do it again? I do love that Screen Set option.

Preliminary observations: This is odd. I was on EA1, verified my current project [A] had screensets, rolled back to the previous version, updated to EA2, loaded the same project [A] and found the screensets module did not seem to work at all.

I loaded another project and found screensets were there.

Then I switched to the first project [A] and the screensets from the second project persisted, but I was able to switch them and get the screensets from the first project [A].

It does not seem to be a user workspace issue because my workspaces is set to "None."  This is odd.

I will try several more times.

UPDATE 1: I reopened project A. Hovering over buttons in the screenset module shows names for screensets, but the buttons do nothing.  I will test for the effect of a custom theme as the possible cause.

image.png.54741c842089982aaeff8cee7a8bee88.png

UPDATE 2: I closed project A and reopened it.  Same problem. Looked at preferences; I had been on Mercury.  Switched to Tungsten. Screenset 1 showed in the top bar and the buttons worked. Switched back to Mercury.  It was a problem again.  Will do more testing, but I don't think its your error.

UPDATE 3: I tried switching to the Advanced workspace and then back to None (still using project A and Mercury).  Same problem.  

I am very reluctant to call things bug (much to the chagrin of other users who insist on things being bugs), but with this preliminary testing, if someone called it a bug, I wouldn't argue with them. Definitely unexpected, though (IMO).

I hope others (esp. staff and power users) can look into this before my OCD kicks in.

UPDATE 4: The problem occurs with some projects, not with others. I then switched to the Advanced workspace (as opposed to None) which has the Screenset Module collapsed. I experienced a consistent problem switching to Screenset 1--the UI switches, but the name doesn't show up. Not sure if the issue is with screenset 1 or the name I used "2020-04-13" or something different. 

Under "Misc." for EA2, I thought the following statement was a fix:

Quote

Applying a Workspace/Screenset referencing track based views to an empty project can crash or cause unexpected behavior

but after loading files under various conditions, maybe its more of a "known problem" in EA2 they are still working on.  

I thought perhaps the problem was caused by files saved under EA1, but I do not want to roll back and then try saving files under EA1.  Maybe when I re-boot again tomorrow morning it will have fixed itself.

 

  

Edited by User 905133
to add Update 4; to add Update 3; to add Update 2; to add Update 1; to unbold text that was accidentally bolded.

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6 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

Preliminary observations: This is odd. I was on EA1, verified my current project [A] had screensets, rolled back to the previous version, updated to EA2, loaded the same project [A] and found the screensets module did not seem to work at all.

I loaded another project and found screensets were there.

Then I switched to the first project [A] and the screensets from the second project persisted, but I was able to switch them and get the screensets from the first project [A].

It does not seem to be a user workspace issue because my workspaces is set to "None."  This is odd.

I will try several more times.

UPDATE 1: I reopened project A. Hovering over buttons in the screenset module shows names for screensets, but the buttons do nothing.  I will test for the effect of a custom theme as the possible cause.

image.png.54741c842089982aaeff8cee7a8bee88.png

 

 

  

I didn't try opening an older project. On my most recent project the module did not exist. I will try to open an older project tomorrow. Thanks for your response.

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9 minutes ago, Jimbob Blues said:

I didn't try opening an older project. On my most recent project the module did not exist. I will try to open an older project tomorrow. Thanks for your response.

If the screensets module was not in the Control Bar, perhaps (1) you have it unselected (in which case you can add it by right-clicking on the "empty space" in the Control Bar or (2) you have screensets excluded through a custom workspace (in which case you can switch to a workspace that includes screensets).

Also, if you have a custom theme that wasn't updated for these EAs, you might want to try either the factory themes or one of the 2020.04 EA tweaked user donated themes.

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On 4/18/2020 at 10:26 AM, Feral State Sound said:

Seriously CTRL + mouse wheel was inverted? Since when? I didn't notice it or I just got used to it.

It was only in 2020.4 ER1 that is was inverted......

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4 hours ago, Jimbob Blues said:

Hopefully it's just me but the Screen Sets are missing. I did run the Rollback and then installed the newest version, maybe I need to do it again? I do love that Screen Set option.

I loaded many CbB projects that have screensets therein....  I was able to recall the screensets in those projects loaded into 2020.4 ER2.

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Posted (edited)

I tried both EA1 & 2.
Almost all VST plugins can not be loaded and hang up.
Roll back and it will work normally.  I think it's a bug in the EA.

Edited by Toy

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Let's not jump to conclusions just yet - if it was a bug in the EA then we'd all be complaining about it, yeah?

The trick now is to narrow down if it's something on your system that's a problem, something on your system that's exposing a problem in the EA (which is the point of this - we want the proper release to be stable, right? That's kind of our jobs if we're trying out these releases) which we can explain to the Bakers so they can fix it, or something has borked during the install.

Can you give more info on your system and what's happening exactly?

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Certainly it was too easy to write.

The installation is successful. There are no errors.

When I load a VST plug-in that I often use from makers such as WAVES, National Instruments, iZtope, Cakewalk becomes "no response".
The only product that worked was the "Vienna Symphonic Library" product.

No error message is displayed. It cannot be forced to terminate. The PC needs to be restarted.
There is no improvement in the reinstallation of each plugin.

To be on the safe side, updating all the drivers for the graphics card, VC ++, etc. did not improve.

Roll back to the old version. There is no problem at all.
The old version is working fine. If I change the settings poorly, the old version will not work.


* This text is a Google translation.

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@Toy can you please capture a dump file for the hang and send me a link to the file?

There are instructions for this in the FAQ but you can save a dump for a hung application from task manager. The file may be large so you will have to upload to a file sharing service like Google drive, OneDrive etc

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Posted (edited)
On 4/19/2020 at 2:01 AM, Promidi said:

I loaded many CbB projects that have screensets therein....  I was able to recall the screensets in those projects loaded into 2020.4 ER2.

EDIT: After a number of focused tests, I highly suspect the issues I experienced and attempted to describe (1) predate any of the 2020.04 Early Access Releases and (2) are most likely the result of the interaction between my specific PC and the specific soft synths and FX plug-ins I have been using.   

The issues I described have not gone away; they are reasonably consistent; I am trying narrowing it down. At least with the projects I am using on my PC, they might be related to the drawing of VSTs, possibly specific VSTs or specific VSTs from specific manufacturers.  Or, it could be related to some changes I did to my PC: (1) removing virtual desktops and/or (2) under privacy settings denying permissions for apps, such as camera, mic, location, etc.

I rarely use screensets and have the ability to explore work arounds. I was curious when I saw the screenset issue post and found I also had it under the newest Early Access Release.  I am used to other issues with Cakewalk that go unresolved, so it is not a major issue for me. The nature of bugs can be elusive--sometimes they show up, sometimes they don't.

I have no doubt that 99% of users might not have a specific problem.  

As for me, I will roll back to the last working non-early release and re-test the files I have been testing the screenset issue. If I don't have these issues, I will put a post-it note on my monitor not to accept any newer versions. 

If I find a work around, I might share that.  So far, for me the FX VST Control Bar lock up I have been experiencing this morning can be resolved my minimizing the plug-in and then docking it in the Multidock. Unfortunately, that locks the FX VST into a cutoff mode.  There are several work arounds for that--such as deleting the plug-in and inserting it again.

If I can create a new project with a non-third-party paid plug-in that distributes the issues, I will share it.

To be clear, as I originally stated (i.e., the reference to Project A and Project B), I have also been able to open some projects and not have the screenset issues.  On my PC, it only seems to occur with some projects. I am now officially bored with trying to isolate the problem.  😉 

Apologies to those who have no issues with screensets.

Edited by User 905133
to underscore that these issues seem to be unrelated to the Early Access Releases

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10 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

The issues I described have not gone away; they are reasonably consistent; I am trying narrowing it down. At least with the projects I am using on my PC, they might be related to the drawing of VSTs, possibly specific VSTs or specific VSTs from specific manufacturers.  Or, it could be related to some changes I did to my PC: (1) removing virtual desktops and/or (2) under privacy settings denying permissions for apps, such as camera, mic, location, etc.

I rarely use screensets and have the ability to explore work arounds. I was curious when I saw the screenset issue post and found I also had it under the newest Early Access Release.  I am used to other issues with Cakewalk that go unresolved, so it is not a major issue for me. The nature of bugs can be elusive--sometimes they show up, sometimes they don't.

I have no doubt that 99% of users might not have a specific problem.  

As for me, I will roll back to the last working non-early release and re-test the files I have been testing the screenset issue. If I don't have these issues, I will put a post-it note on my monitor not to accept any newer versions. 

If I find a work around, I might share that.  So far, for me the FX VST Control Bar lock up I have been experiencing this morning can be resolved my minimizing the plug-in and then docking it in the Multidock. Unfortunately, that locks the FX VST into a cutoff mode.  There are several work arounds for that--such as deleting the plug-in and inserting it again.

If I can create a new project with a non-third-party paid plug-in that distributes the issues, I will share it.

To be clear, as I originally stated (i.e., the reference to Project A and Project B), I have also been able to open some projects and not have the screenset issues.  On my PC, it only seems to occur with some projects. I am now officially bored with trying to isolate the problem.  😉 

Apologies to those who have no issues with screensets.

I opened four older projects and the screenset module is not there (see pic).

CbB.thumb.jpg.003163838a9ed8311e56618f8bfa239a.jpg

I ran the rollback - module not there. I uninstalled and re-installed CbC - module not there. I still have Sonar Producer so I ran it and the module is there (see Pic).

 

Sonar.jpg.4b16856e954ab2f8edab248501306beb.jpg

 

Not sure whats happening?

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Posted (edited)

You have the Basic workspace; change that. See the image here--no screensets in the Basic Workspace.

 

Edited by User 905133
To add a link to a side by side image of Views in the Basic and Advanced workspaces.

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