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synkrotron

Why is Cakewalk by Bandlab free?

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On 2/3/2019 at 5:02 PM, Larry Jones said:

@synkrotron and @Starship Krupa - Good to read your lengthy and thoughtful exchange. I feel I know you both now -- at least more than I did. And intelligent points from both of you.

My take: Despite Meng's vision and Noel's and the Bakers' dedication, a free product might not be sustainable in the long run, and if we are going to learn anything as complex as a full-featured multitrack digital recording, mixing and mastering program, we want it to be around and supported for a long time (plus we all got burned in November 2017). So it's not surprising that some of us want to understand what the prospects are, although I don't think it's quite fair to look for assurances. This is life, after all. Shit happens. For this reason I am happily using CbB and rooting for its continued success, but remaining poised to jump over to one of two other DAWs if anything goes wrong here in Cakeland.

PS: Andy, you and I commented on each others music in the old Songs forum. Your stuff is foreign to an old rocker like me, but now that I've read all this from you I am going back and listening again. Diggin' it.

Sonar X3 is 5 years old and I could easily continue making music with it and still consider it to be better than most DAWs on the market.  

Would I miss some of the tweaks and updates that have been made to the platform since then?  Of course, but it also goes to show the program can and will stay relevant for a long time.  Off-Line installs and the lack of need for authorization would be welcome additions to open the door to more users.  

Does my guitar cease to work after 5 years?  Nope, I can still make music with it.  The DAW is no different even if development stopped, the only question is compatibility and the fact that 10 year old versions of Sonar still work goes to show Windows and Sonar seem to work pretty well with each other.  

Edited by Brian Walton

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1 hour ago, Notes_Norton said:

I  The non-buggy 8.3 version does not load in Win10 but the slightly buggy one does.

did you try  all the various "compatibilty" options in win10?

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Frankly, I'm much more concerned that Microsoft and Apple will be what eventually scuttles our DAWs. Microsoft wants to go more in a "services," cloud-based direction, because so far the shift has been very successful for them. It's possible that software companies will accommodate this trend by making more cloud-based programs, with an eye toward collaboration and a subscription-based model. If so, then whether by accident or design, BandLab would be in a better position than most to ride this trend.

As to Apple, the iPhone business is flat, and although there are promises of a new desktop this year, details are vague. And if Apple really is going to ditch Intel chips for their own, I don't see any way they can ramp up to Intel's level of silicon wizardry before the end of the year. I can see this happening for their mobile and other I-devices, but not for a desktop capable of doing a credible job with a program like Final Cut Pro X. I wrote an article about this for Pro Sound News if you want to see more thoughts on the subject.

 

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27 minutes ago, Craig Anderton said:

Microsoft wants to go more in a "services," cloud-based direction, because so far the shift has been very successful for them. It's possible that software companies will accommodate this trend by making more cloud-based programs, with an eye toward collaboration and a subscription-based model.

If such a brave new world takes shape, geeks like me (and probably you, @Craig Anderton), will move to applications like Reaper, and there will probably be more of them in a future environment in which the "majors" are trying to tether their customers to subscriptions. As you know from the old forum, we don't like no steenking subscriptions...

Edited by Larry Jones
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11 minutes ago, Larry Jones said:

If such a brave new world takes shape, geeks like me (and probably you, @Craig Anderton), will move to applications like Reaper, and there will probably be more of them in a future environment in which the "majors" are trying to tether their customers to subscriptions. As you know from the old forum, we don't like no steenking subscriptions...

I have to agree. I would seriously go in the direction of Reaper myself.

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5 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

IMHO MTPro is the best stand-alone MIDI sequencer in the biz. Great interface, great editing tools, everything available in a mouse click or two (no sub-menus or sub-sub-menus), and the 8.3 version never-ever crashed. Sadly the new version occasional does.

Oh, it looks so familiar to Cakewalk Professional 3 from early nineties! And it's even working on mcintosh, lovely :).

5 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

If Bandlab decides to abandon Cakewalk, it's possible we will be able to use it for many years - until Microsoft changes it's OS making it no longer compatible (like the 8.3 version of MTPro).

In that scenario your Cakewalk will revert to demo mode in less than 6 months.

16 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

If it fizzles, and development stops, I'll be left with this great DAW software and will have to rely the people who own it to continue the free subscription or be kind enough to release a version with a perpetual key. For the value I'm getting now, it all seems quite worth the risk.

This. We (sonarians) have heard that already in the past but it never happended. I assumed "the people who own it" decided that the fact of CakeLab revival is a sufficient reason to scrap the unlock idea. I've never intended to jump the ship in the past, but I'll take risk as the keyword for the future here, YMMV ;).

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1 hour ago, synkrotron said:

And perhaps even a Linux based system...

That's my Plan "Z", as in if the Windows zombie apocalypse ever happens to us. :D

I already have Tracktion Waveform working on Windows (it's PC, Mac, & Linux cross-platform), and I believe Bitwig has a Linux version, and Reaper has a Linux beta. So not a showstopper, except for most of my 500 plugins probably wouldn't work that great in Linux. The Tracktion synths and FX would probably be good to go.

Edited by abacab
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Reaper outs routed to Harrison Mixbus in linux, oh yeaaah...!

Should we start to ask all plugin developers for a linux verion now?

Edited by chris.r

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5 hours ago, abacab said:

A lot of competition in a saturated market

I don't like this kind of saying! It has been misused to legitimate a lot of ill measures in our sick world. The fact is that today the market for DAWs is much larger, there are definitely a lot more costomers than 20 years ago!

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2 hours ago, Craig Anderton said:

Frankly, I'm much more concerned that Microsoft and Apple will be what eventually scuttles our DAWs. Microsoft wants to go more in a "services," cloud-based direction, because so far the shift has been very successful for them. It's possible that software companies will accommodate this trend by making more cloud-based programs, with an eye toward collaboration and a subscription-based model. If so, then whether by accident or design, BandLab would be in a better position than most to ride this trend.

If this happens then I will leave the boat. This would be the worst scenario I can imagine! I hate cloud-based stuff, it is the evil per se!

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9 minutes ago, marled said:

I don't like this kind of saying! It has been misused to legitimate a lot of ill measures in our sick world. The fact is that today the market for DAWs is much larger, there are definitely a lot more costomers than 20 years ago!

Sorry, but I will stand by the statement "A lot of competition in a saturated market", and belief that it was not misused in this context.

I don't like it either, but the reality is that Cakewalk wouldn't have failed in the market under Gibson if the opposite were true. If it were a money making machine, don't you think there would have been eager buyers lining up, rather than shutdown plans for a 30 year old company?

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3 minutes ago, abacab said:

Sorry, but I will stand by the statement "A lot of competition in a saturated market", and belief that it was not misused in this context. 

I don't like it either, but the reality is that Cakewalk wouldn't have failed in the market under Gibson if the opposite were true. If it were a money making machine, don't you think there would have been eager buyers lining up, rather than shutdown plans for a 30 year old company? 

Sorry either, I think a lot of management failure is excused like that! There are many reasons why a company is not successful, not profitable, it is not only the market's fault. That's too simple! I am 100% sure that Sonar could have survived with other (cleverer) managers!

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17 minutes ago, marled said:

The fact is that today the market for DAWs is much larger, there are definitely a lot more costomers than 20 years ago!

And the fact is that most of them were lining up for DAWs with names like Ableton Live, Logic, FL Studio, Reason, Reaper, Studio One, Bitwig, Cubase, etc.

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I like my three main DAWs. CbB, Studio One and Mixbus. Reaper is 2nd line defense for me. Verion 6, whenever it becomes reality, my be a game changer for quite a rew, IMO.

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CbB, Samplitude, Studio One, Reaper. I think I will have to sit down and come to terms with another DAW and learn it better. I like several DAW's but each for different reasons. Time to make a Pro and Con sheet :)

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On 2/1/2019 at 11:48 AM, Craig Anderton said:

It's a tractor beam

What tractor beam are you referring to?
Sorry, your description is so funny because it takes me back to a movie.

There is a scene in the movie Dumb and Dumber where Loyd was describing Freda Feltcher and a tractor beam.
It's hilarious!

I get your point though.
 

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2 hours ago, abacab said:

Sorry, but I will stand by the statement "A lot of competition in a saturated market", and belief that it was not misused in this context.

I don't like it either, but the reality is that Cakewalk wouldn't have failed in the market under Gibson if the opposite were true. If it were a money making machine, don't you think there would have been eager buyers lining up, rather than shutdown plans for a 30 year old company?

I don't see a bunch of companies looking to buy Gibson either,  and they are a household name even non-musicians know.  

While I do think both markets (DAW and Guitars) are generally over saturated, there is a decent sized market and people did buy products in these catergories, the question is who they bought from.  

Everyone in the market had a choice to buy under the Gibson umbrella or from another company.  I bought a Heritage Guitar (before Bandland bought them) because they ere better than Gibson is today (I also own vintage Gibsons).  I bought my DAW from Gibson, since Sonar was better than other DAWs.  However, both of those choices came from someone that is far more educated in these areas than your average consumer.  Each of these companies had a very difficult time reaching the average person.    If they had, the story would be different.   

While Cakewalk adoption has been strong/exceeded expectations of Bandlab....the crazy thing is people are still out there using (and buying) other DAWs when Cakewalk is offered for free.  I understand this from Mac users (who are only a fraction of the personal computer market), but the rest of Windows owners.  They are still paying hundreds for a "similar" product, that doesn't even look as nice?  I think the points to a larger problem that being the best isn't always enough to stay afloat.  

Edited by Brian Walton

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3 hours ago, InstrEd said:

CbB, Samplitude, Studio One, Reaper. I think I will have to sit down and come to terms with another DAW and learn it better. I like several DAW's but each for different reasons. Time to make a Pro and Con sheet :)

I have samplitude and mixcraft.

 They are dead  to me. Not worth my time. Not even Samp v4.

Wasted a total of $200 on those two.

Edited by Bapu

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11 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

I've got to respectfully disagree with your first statement. Capitalism is all about the corporation. It's about making profits so the non-participant stockholders can increase their share value.

Now they partially do this by focusing on the customer, because customers are necessary. But the focus is on profits and nothing else. But then, isn't that the reason to be in business?

The difference is in a small business, the company doesn't have to grow perpetually to stay in business.

But I do agree that we can live without Facebook, Twitter (I do), Google (that too), Smartphone (minimize my apps and permissions because I need the phone for business), and value the money that I'm not slaving for (I'm a professional musician - I make a living by enjoying myself).

Capitalism has it's flaws, but so far it's better than the alternatives the world has tried. By pointing out the flaws we can minimize their impact on us, and perhaps someday someone will be able to improve it.

Insights and incites by Notes

Capitalism is all about the consumer.  If you don't like a corporation's actions, stop buying their stuff.  If enough people do, they will change their model to something acceptable to the customers, or cease to exist.  They don't actually hold much power, which is why they lobby governments as hard as they do...

If you want it to be more fair... then you have to make a sacrifice.  It's people's  unwillingness to give up conveniences that leaves them ripe to be exploited.  Companies know this, but it doesn't mean they are in control  The consumers are.  They are the ones who shell out the cash.  They're just too unwilling to make the hard decisions and make the sacrifices needed...

This is why capitalism brings huge increases quality of life, but is typically followed by corporations that  exploit the unwillingness for people to take a step back when they're being exploited.  People don't like giving up small conveniences.  That's why "First World Problems" is a meme.  The benefits of capitalism are great, but it also comes with huge societal responsibilities - which we have been pretty shoddy at dealing with, BTW...

Facebook will exploit all those users, who still sit in a corner complaining as they say it's "too hard to leave" because they won't be able to "keep in touch" with the people they know...

Facebook makes these things easier, it doesn't make them possible.  It's a convenience, but it comes at a price... what gives Facebook power is not their product, but people's unwillingness to seek alternatives and/or just walk away from it.  The consumers hold the key, but they will never use it because they are convinced they have nothing to benefit from doing so.

Edited by SomeGuy

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