Maximum Levels When Mastering?

[William W. Saunders, Jr.]

What is a good safe level to set maximum output to when mastering for a CD?  I've been setting mine pretty high at -.3 dB in Ozone8 (which is the default on its maximizer when using "Mastering Assistant"), but my new interface's meters show sporadic red at that level and the manual says I may be overloading the A?D converter.    

Any rules of thumb to follow?  Should I back it down to -.5 or even lower?  I frankly don't even hear any problems when I work at -.1, but then my 67 y/o ears aren't the best. 

Thanks,

Bill

[CJ Jacobson]

Quote

What is a good safe level to set maximum output to when mastering for a CD?  I've been setting mine pretty high at -.3 dB in Ozone8 

Does that level work for you? That is your answer.. You can also import a CD in your genre and see  their levels.

10 hours ago, BRainbow said:

but my new interface's meters show sporadic red at that level and the manual says I may be overloading the A?D converter.    

Never do anything by default. The manual knows nothing about your song. If you are red, you are clipping.  Never just do what a manual says without using your ears and eyes. Matter of fact, just use your ears and eyes to determine the correct levels. Its the only way to do it.

[dcumpian]

Maximum loudness that still allows for conversion to MP3 is right at -.3  That gives the MP3 conversion algorithm a little headroom to work without clipping. However, this level is only good if you have a hard limiter at the end of the processing chain to catch anything over that. A soft limiter will still allow the occasional transient over your set level and that may force you to set a lower level.

To really get loud mixes (no judgement), it is best to use a clipper (like GClip or KClip) very gently to raise the overall volume before adding a limiter. Finally, never let a single limiter push the volume all the way to the final level unless you are already really close. Instead, stack limiters in series such that each limiter only pushes overall levels by 3 to 4db. That reduces artifacts and "pumpiness".

 

Regards,

Dan

[Craig Anderton]

Don't overlook intersample distortion, where there can appear to be no distortion because the meters are measuring the level of the samples. However when reconstructed via the D/A converter, distortion can result. See the picture below (reprinted with permission from my book, "The Musician's Guide to Audio"").

[William W. Saunders, Jr.]

Thanks for the answers, gentlemen.  I have been trusting my ears and have been happy with the results at -0.1 but I think that to leave a little more headroom for conversions, and avoid the scenario Craig pointed out, I'll start backing it off a wee bit.

Regards,

Bill

 

[chuckebaby]

if I may ask are you using 1 limiter or 2 ?

I typically use 1 (sometimes a multiband compressor/limiter) to tame the edges and then use another 1 to slam it right up in the face.

I master to -0.2 dbfs. I used the K system for ever until I learned about the LUFS standard (loudness units relative to full scale).

I have found over the years that mastering is more of a science than an art form. Its about calculations and numbers. Sure there are those times we are able to be creative but for the most part its about adding the correct ingredients to the correct meal. You're not only preparing the food... you are serving it too.

[synkrotron]

I use LUFS now and rarely do I need to worry much about peak levels. All my releases in the last twelve months or so don't go over -1.0 dB

Then again, I only release on streaming services. Haven't burned an audio CD for over fifteen years... So perhaps my input here is irrelevant.

Edited February 2, 2019 by synkrotron

[John Vere]

I use the BT Brickwall on my master buss and it is set at -0.4db it seems to be bullet proof and I've never noticed any artifacts. 

I then open the song in Wave lab and check with the analyzing tools that the peak level is -0.4 and then look for a average RMS level of around - 11  to -14. 

I have compressors on all sub busses and all the audio tracks.  

I was very pleased the other day to find I can use a lot of my Cakewalk VST's inside Vegas Movie Studio. MP4 is a new format for me and I'm releasing most of my songs  now in that format on U tube.  So mastering for MP4 is now critical.  CD's are easy to get nice and  loud but I only burn them to listen in the car for proofing mixes. 

I just was reading about a VST package that is made just to analyze for mastering in all formats. 

https://nugenaudio.com/modernmastering/

 

 

[Craig Anderton]

2 hours ago, synkrotron said:

I use LUFS now and rarely do I need to worry much about peak levels. All my releases in the last twelve months or so don't go over -1.0 dB

Then again, I only release on streaming services. Haven't burned an audio CD for over fifteen years... So perhaps my input here is irrelevant.

Your comments are very relevant. I master primarily to LUFS (I like -11 or so a lot, and it doesn't get turned down much by YouTube). However, CDs remain relevant for merch tables and although physical sales are way down, there's still a market for them. So now I try to master for something that will sound right online, but also, make for decent CD levels (even if I won't win any loudness wars).

[William W. Saunders, Jr.]

When mixing, I use some moderate compression, more for more percussive tracks, and occasionally limiting -- to get the track dynamic ranges in general harmony, without significant transient spikes which would overload. 

When I master I use a bit more compression, including multiband as needed, and then a limiter - just one - at the end of the chain.  I haven't used LUFS scale but may try it. 

For both compression and limiting I use mostly iZotope Neutron and Ozone 8 Advanced.   I also use the Cakewalk LP MB.  Sometime I use the ProChannel concrete limiter on particularly frisky tracks when mixing, but not usually on anything like vocals or acoustic guitar.