How to Set Metronome to Play Through Interface for Recording?

[justinpbrown71]

I am interfaced to CW with a Zoom R8. When attempting to record, the CW metronome plays through the laptop & obviously is not useable as I am using a microphone to record.

I have the Playback Timing Master set to the Realtek Digital Output of the laptop, because if I set this to the Line Zoom R8 I get a very bad latency with the metronome in realtime (though it does play through headphones plugged into the Zoom R8), during recording & also of track playback in CW. I can have any setting for the track output, all work fine (except if the driver output is set to the Zoom R8).

The Recording Time Master I have set to the Zoom R8.

Is there something I am overlooking?

 

[David Baay]

It would be best to get the R8 working at reasonable latency, have it set as both Playback and Record Timing Master, and use headphones for monitoring the metronome as well as the instrument input. What driver mode are you using with th R8 (preferably ASIO, if supported, or WDM), what buffer size, and what's the total reported round-trip latency?

[scook]

This is normal. ASIO must use the same driver for input and output.

IIRC, ASIO4All aggregates WDM drivers so there should be a configuration tool supplied by the manufacturer to setup which devices are used by the software.

 

[scook]

What ASIO4All does is wrap one or more WDM drivers for one or more devices and present them to the DAW as an ASIO driver. As far as the DAW is concerned, there is one ASIO driver called ASIO4All. The smaller the ASIO buffer size, the lower the latency. Using 96kHz sample rate probably needs a 256 sample buffer size or smaller to effectively monitoring through the DAW.

 

[scook]

There are two ways the sample rate is set in Cakewalk.

• For projects that have no audio clips the sample rate is read from preferences
• For projects with audio clips, the sample rate is read from an audio clip header.

The project sample rate is sent to the audio interface. Most devices respond to this request. If the Zoom does not respond to sample rate change request from the DAW you may have to use manually configure Zoom.

If the Realtek is set to 96k it may be when running both, it may have had a side effect of changing the Zoom to 96k.

 

[justinpbrown71]

1 hour ago, David Baay said:

It would be best to get the R8 working at reasonable latency, have it set as both Playback and Record Timing Master, and use headphones for monitoring the metronome as well as the instrument input. What driver mode are you using with th R8 (preferably ASIO, if supported, or WDM), what buffer size, and what's the total reported round-trip latency?

The only driver option that allows use of the R8 is the MME 32bit setting. In the ASIO setting the Playback TM has no options & the Record TM opens a long empty menu. The other driver options, when applied show the R8 & Realtek Speakers as missing.

With the MME 32bit option the 'buffers in queue' size is set to 4, the buffer size is at Fast (10.0msec 441 samples), & the effective latency at 44khz/stereo is 30.0 msec.

Also, on the Zoom R8 screen, beside the USB symbol at the top right is the number 96.0. The only option on this screen that I can change is to toggle between REC, SOLO & MUTE, but I'm not sure what these settings are for.

Thanks for your assistance David.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Justin P Brown

[scook]

Is the R8 driver installed?

 

[justinpbrown71]

2 minutes ago, scook said:

Is the R8 driver installed?

 

Yes. I have re-installed it & re-booted just to make sure.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Justin P Brown

[justinpbrown71]

On someones advice I istalled ASIO4ALL. However, when selected as Driver Mode, it provides only itself as an option for Playback & Record TM.

[justinpbrown71]

8 minutes ago, scook said:

This is normal. ASIO must use the same driver for input and output.

IIRC, ASIO4All aggregates WDM drivers so there should be a configuration tool supplied by the manufacturer to setup which devices are used by the software.

 

Sorry, I don't understand. Supplied by the manufacturer of what? The laptop, the drivers, the R8?

Previously I was told to preferably use the ASIO Driver Mode & choose the Zoom R8 options for Playback & Record TM. You are implying that this is not possible? Then hwo can I use the ZoomR8 driver for output without having the latency problem?

Edited March 13, 2020 by Justin P Brown

[scook]

ASIO4All

 

[justinpbrown71]

6 minutes ago, scook said:

ASIO4All

 

Yes, there is a 'tool' with ASIO4All, but I don't understand how it works. In its panel it shows the two drivers (Zoom R8 & Realtek) that I cannot choose in CW when the Driver Mode is set to ASIO. Each has some options which can be changed. For example, the Zoom R8 options are as follows:

Latency compensation - In: currently set to 32 Samples / Out: currently set to 32 samples. Hardware buffer (unchecked). Kernel Buffers: currently set at 2. Always resample 44.1khz<->48khz (unchecked). Force WDM Driver To 16 Bit (unchecked)

Also, if I highlight the Zoom R8 in the WDM Device list of the panel, there are listed: Out: 2x 44.1-96khz, 24Bits & In:2x 44.1-96khz, 24Bits.

At the bottom of the panel is a slider for the ASIO Buffer Size, defaulted to 512 Samples.

I am not knowledgeable enough to understand the ramifications of these settings or how to apply them to my problem.

 

[justinpbrown71]

8 minutes ago, scook said:

What ASIO4All does is wrap one or more WDM drivers for one or more devices and present them to the DAW as an ASIO driver. As far as the DAW is concerned, there is one ASIO driver called ASIO4All. The smaller the ASIO buffer size, the lower the latency. Using 96kHz sample rate probably needs a 256 sample buffer size or smaller to effectively monitoring through the DAW.

 

I have resolved the issue. I needed to re-boot the R8 for the ASIO4All driver to recognise the R8 driver. I have reduced the ASIO buffer size to 128.
Thes are the new parameters showing in CW:

Buffers in playback queue - 2
Buffer size is just below Fast & 4.7 msec / 208 samples
Effective latency at 44khz/stereo 4.7 msec
ASIO reported latencies (includes buffer & hardware latencies): Input & Output both = 5.4 msec, Samples 240. Total Roundtrip 10.9 msec, 480 samples.

Are these settings good?

Thanks very much for your assistance scook.

[scook]

1 hour ago, Justin P Brown said:

In the ASIO setting the Playback TM has no options & the Record TM opens a long empty menu.

When ASIO4All is selected in preferences?

[justinpbrown71]

3 minutes ago, scook said:

When ASIO4All is selected in preferences?

The options for both Playback & Record TM are now ASIO4ALL v2 Zoom R8 1. My problem has been solved. I have no latency issues with audio outputting from the laptop to the Zoom R8, i.e, the metronome for recording or track playback for headphone monitoring.

I don't know why the Zoom R8 when interfacing is set to 96.0. I have only been recording with it at 44.1khz 24bit.

Again, thanks for your help.