Looping - Liver performance guitar

[sadicus]

Looking at trying the looping features in Cakewalk for live performance. I'm reading up on this today but looking for advice or tips from anyone that has experience doing this.

There are so many loop pedals, I thought I'd use the most advanced looper: Cakewalk.

 

[Starise]

No matter what software you use to play the loops, you'll need a good scheme to trigger them when needed...with keyboards you often need both hands, but can free up a second or two to push a button. Playing guitars you probably don't want to run around pushing buttons.I have found keyboards easier to use smaller tactile midi controllers with, like pads programmed to launch clips. This is only because we can put those things closer to our hands and quickly hit the pad or key or button....even then things can go terribly wrong if you missed one of the steps in making the show. If I were playing guitar I would be looking at foot switches that can send midi commands or  hardware loopers with foot switches. I have never seen anyone play guitar and use a pad or button to record and play the loops.....it has probably been done, but seems a lot more difficult to me for a guitarist.

Admittedly I used Ableton Live for this. Not because Cakewalk won't probably do it. In my case I had files written in and made for that program. I played with the matrix awhile back. I was able to record the loops, but didn't use a controller to do that.In theory it should work in a similar way.

Before you go out and buy a controller for the laptop I would maybe experiment with midi bindings to loops in the matrix  and make some test loops triggering them with commands from anything you have laying around or your QWERTY keyboard...at least that way you ran it through a  test and it did want you wanted it to do. The benefit to hardware loopers is you can instantly erase what you recorded and record something else. I see the matrix as more of a loop player though maybe someone else can comment who recorded loops live.

[sadicus]

Any updated Matrix view tutorials? most are 10 years old.

so far most guitar loop tutorials are using Ableton Live. It's sad how long cakewalk by all it's names has been around and how few detailed tutorials there are.
MATRIX that's what I'm wanting to setup and test today.  imma make a list in this thread.

1) "experiment with midi bindings to loops in the matrix"
2) foot switches that can send midi commands or  hardware loopers with foot switches
3)

Edited March 6, 2020 by sadicus

[User 905133]

3 hours ago, sadicus said:

Any updated Matrix view tutorials? most are 10 years old.

so far most guitar loop tutorials are using Ableton Live. It's sad how long cakewalk by all it's names has been around and how few detailed tutorials there are.
MATRIX that's what I'm wanting to setup and test today.  imma make a list in this thread.

1) "experiment with midi bindings to loops in the matrix"
2) foot switches that can send midi commands or  hardware loopers with foot switches

I have not tried triggering  matrix loops with external midi controls. I am not sure it can be done.  However, I did try to bind external midi to the Inspector-based arpeggiator and found what seems like a major bug in using remote control midi with the arpeggiator--either that or I haven't found a setting to make it work properly. 

In short, I was able to map a foot pedal (and I think other CC generating external gear) to the virtual buttons/knobs on the arpeggiator;  however, that only affacted the virtual interface, not the underlying function.  For example, I could get the foot pedal to toggle the latch button and the on/off button, but all that did was change the on/off status of the button.

If you try mapping external midi to the matrix and it can be done, I'd be interested in knowing if it works.

 

[sadicus]

I'm using A-300 PRO controller *[RC] = Right Click Menu
Matrix View Column  1 [RC] MIDI Learn
Controller > Dynamic Pad A5

this sets Pad A5 to trigger the loop but it is also a shortcut to "Mute" on the selected  track. I'm not sure how to unassign the pad settings before using MIDI learn.
Also

How to get the loop to play columns sequentially? Trigger Column 1 to loop once and then play column 2, 3, etc.

[Starise]

After some investigation further into this and looking for into it like you did sadicus, I have come to my own conclusions which are probably not in line with your goals.

While I really hope you can make Matrix do what you want it to do I am highly skeptical now. If all you wanted to do was pre record and "fire off" loops then it would probably be adequate for that. When you record to the Matrix it saves it to a clips area. Retrieving that loop immediately might be an issue using only a midi controller.

When comparing the Matrix to something like Ableton the Matrix looks to be a highly simplified version of a looper. Until this part of the program is developed further I don't think I would use it on stage, but that's me. If you can make it work like a hardware looper that records. plays and erases on the fly then please do share how you did it. I have an RC-300. Those have been for sale for long time and are still listed for sale because they work really well for playing ideas in and getting an instant playback. Many of the guitar multi effects also have some kind of a looper built in. 

If you are looking for a software looper solution you won't do better than Ableton for that. I hate to say it because I am a long time Cakewalk user, but this portion of the program is nowhere near as developed as Ableton Live 10. Even if you use Ableton there will likely be some work to do in setting up a controller to record instantly and play back immediately after. It will still be easier than the matrix. There are likely VST MC type plugins that do similar but they are all a little different and a look at the specs would be necessary.

Here the RC-300 in action. This guy makes it look a lot easier than it really is......or maybe he is way more talented than me. Very possible.

Ableton Live 10

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Starise

[Andrzej Salm]

Ableton Live is the best option for you. If your songs have a set structure you can perform without triggering loops manually. That's what I do:

 

[rsinger]

On 3/6/2020 at 6:52 AM, sadicus said:

Looking at trying the looping features in Cakewalk for live performance. I'm reading up on this today but looking for advice or tips from anyone that has experience doing this.

Use Ableton Live or a good pedal. I have an EDP, but it's mono so I use Live 9.

[rsinger]

To some extent I'm eating my words. I was playing around with Frippertronics last week and I had one of those doh moments. I was using delay lines like Fripp or Reich and realized I could sync them up to the tempo. You can then make it hybrid, the tape loops and prerecorded or looped tracks or matrix. We're still left with the problem of using a foot controller. Using either Cakewalk or Live there are restrictions on MIDI mapping.

I'm using aux tracks for the delays and use Input Echo to feed a delay. I would like to be able to enable/disable Input Echo on the delay tracks, but I haven't figured out how to do that other than to navigate tracks (prev, next) and control the current track. In Live I can control the sends with a button (footswitch - MFC10) and switch between -infinity and 0 dB so I'm moving over to Live. It is workable in Cakewalk, but takes more tap dancing for a guitarist.

There are still solutions in Cakewalk. Using a delay that allows you to turn off the input or using a looper plugin and so on.

[User 905133]

1 hour ago, rsinger said:

We're still left with the problem of using a foot controller. Using either Cakewalk or Live there are restrictions on MIDI mapping.

. . .

I would like to be able to enable/disable Input Echo on the delay tracks, but I haven't figured out how to do that other than to navigate tracks (prev, next) and control the current track.

I haven't been following the details of this thread, but the use of remote control MIDI for realtime performance has interested me for ages.  When I ran into the problem with remote control on the Inspector-based Arpeggiator, I think I tested using a momentary contact foot pedal to turn input echo on/off  on tracks.  Is that the kind of thing you are looking to do?

Also, for a few months I have been building a realtime performance setup using z3ta+ FX and mainly TTS-1, but I have done it with other softsynths. As for controlling, z3ta+ FX, so far I have been using a slider on a nanoKontrol to play in realtime the feedback parameter in the delay module (though I have plans to do the same with other parameters).

Just adjusting the delay feedback level, I can go from constant delay looping  to none.

Again, I haven't been following the details, but based on your post, I am wondering if what I have been doing could apply to your "Flippertronics" or are you doing that 100% with audio (i.e., no midi control)?

Edited March 30, 2020 by User 905133

[rsinger]

44 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

I haven't been following the details of this thread, but the use of remote control MIDI for realtime performance has interested me for ages.  When I ran into the problem with remote control on the Inspector-based Arpeggiator, I think I tested using a momentary contact foot pedal to turn input echo on/off  on tracks.  Is that the kind of thing you are looking to do?

Also, for a few months I have been building a realtime performance setup using z3ta+ FX and mainly TTS-1, but I have done it with other softsynths. As for controlling, z3ta+ FX, so far I have been using a slider on a nanoKontrol to play in realtime the feedback parameter in the delay module (though I have plans to do the same with other parameters).

Just adjusting the delay feedback level, I can go from constant delay looping  to none.

Again, I haven't been following the details, but based on your post, I am wondering if what I have been doing could apply to your "Flippertronics" or are you doing that 100% with audio (i.e., no midi control)?

That's a yes about midi control of the Input Echo. I'm using both an MFC10 (midi foot controller) and a Korg NanoKontrol. The Input Echo I want to control with the foot pedal, I use the NanoKontrol to fade the volume or fb. If I can figure out how to control multiple Input Echos directly with a foot pedal, then I would also use the foot pedal to start/stop the transport & play either cells or columns in matrix.

For the looping for me the key is cutting off the input to the delay and letting it play on while I play over it or start another loop. I play guitar so I need a pedal to enable/disable the feed to the delay. When I want one loop to fade out currently I plan on using the NanoKontrol to reduce the fb.