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Jeremy Jensen

Turn Down All Tracks by X DBs

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I think it would be really useful to be able to have a way to automatically turn down every track in the project by a certain number of db or maybe a percent. Sometimes, when you're mixing, we fall into that trap of turning everything up piece by piece until we're out of headroom. I would include, as an option, the ability to turn down all volume envelopes as part of this process. It's this ability to turn down all volume envelopes that would make it functionally different than just selecting all tracks, holding down CTRL and moving a fader. I'd also include, as an option, whether this process would involve zeroing out the offset volume as part of the decrease in volume.

I'm also guessing there would be a way to do this with a CAL script (that's what they're called, right?)

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1 hour ago, Jeremy Jensen said:

I think it would be really useful to be able to have a way to automatically turn down every track in the project by a certain number of db or maybe a percent. Sometimes, when you're mixing, we fall into that trap of turning everything up piece by piece until we're out of headroom. I would include, as an option, the ability to turn down all volume envelopes as part of this process. It's this ability to turn down all volume envelopes that would make it functionally different than just selecting all tracks, holding down CTRL and moving a fader. I'd also include, as an option, whether this process would involve zeroing out the offset volume as part of the decrease in volume.

I'm also guessing there would be a way to do this with a CAL script (that's what they're called, right?)

But, by selecting all tracks by pressing Ctrl+A and than hold down on Ctrl as you tweak your faders, this is already possible. 🤨

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On 1/25/2020 at 8:59 PM, _Will_ said:

But, by selecting all tracks by pressing Ctrl+A and than hold down on Ctrl as you tweak your faders, this is already possible. 🤨

Please read my original post more closely. I mention that this approach doesn't meet my exact needs. 

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On 1/25/2020 at 9:50 PM, reginaldStjohn said:

Or using offset mode you can do this as well.

I'm aware of offset mode. 

I know there are workarounds to this issue, but I still think it would be a good idea, or at least very useful to me and the way that I work, to include my original request.

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On 1/25/2020 at 9:09 PM, Jeremy Jensen said:

I think it would be really useful to be able to have a way to automatically turn down every track in the project by a certain number of db

Isn't this why the master bus was created ?

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2 hours ago, chuckebaby said:

Isn't this why the master bus was created ?

That's what I was thinkning..if you want to turn everything down just pull down the Master Fader...or...decrease the input gain level on The Master Buss if you are clipping your Master Buss Plugin inputs.  I do this all the time when the mix starts to get a bit 'hot'

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If you want to begin a mix with proper gain staging, turning every track down is better than relying on the master bus. 

I've been using Sonar/Cakewalk for 20 years. There's not going to be some feature you inform me about that's going to change my feeling that this would be a good feature to add to it. That's fine if you don't think this would be useful for you, but it would be immensely helpful to me.

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13 hours ago, Jeremy Jensen said:

That's fine if you don't think this would be useful for you, but it would be immensely helpful to me.

I can totally respect this theory. but can you give us a good reason why turning down the master bus wont work just as well ?

A feature request can take time to program and even expose bugs, would it be worth that for something as easy as pulling down the master bus ?

I do gain staging on every mix. And i often run to the same issue you do. I'm constantly turning down faders within the course of mixing. I do this typically before any automation, Grabbing CTRL+all tracks selected makes it easy to adjust all at once. But i still end up having to adjust my Master bus fader after automation.

I hope it doesn't sound like i'm taking a dump on your feature request, just hoping to help you out in the meantime. The Master Bus will control all tracks even after gain staging is complete.

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Hi🙂

 

What about making a track and group it with all other tracks and use this track to pull all others down? 

Same as using CTRL, but you don't have to select the tracks and press Ctrl ....

Maybe it is possible with a CAL Script, I can try to make one on Saturday.....

Bassman 

 

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Id also like to add that, this is your feature request, I really hope I didn't sound like I disapprove or anything. Sometimes I can sound rather blunt in this feedback section. You have every right to request what ever feature you want.

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HI:)

I tried to write a CAL Script, but:

 

It is not possible to read out the actual Volume level of a track, so you can't add or subtract a given amount.

The only way I found is the following:

1. Add a Midi Track and the best is to add it as the last track.

2. Remember the number of the track.

3. Copy my attached CAL Script to %Your Partition%\Cakewalk Content\Cakewalk Core\Cal Scripts

4. Make a shortcut to the CAL Script, perhaps Shift+P

5. Now Select all Tracks or press Ctrl+A

6. Right click on any Volume Fader, select a group color and make sure that the group is set to "relativ"

7. Look at the "Volume" Number on the added Miditrack (101 must be at the moment)

8. Press Shift+P or your attached shortcut for the CAL Script and type in the number of the track and the Volume (0-127)

If you want to have -3dB, type in (Your Miditrack) and 88 for the Volume. If you try some amounts (Ctrl+Z to Undo) you can see on your tracks how much dB you subtract.

 

BUT!

You can't adjust Volume on seperate Tracks, unless they are ungrouped.

No time anymore today, tomorrow I can make a Autohotkeyscript to automatically Group or ungroup all tracks and combine it with the cal script......should be possible!!

 

Greetz,

Bassman.

 

TrackVolume.cal

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On 2/6/2020 at 11:55 AM, chuckebaby said:

I can totally respect this theory. but can you give us a good reason why turning down the master bus wont work just as well ?

A feature request can take time to program and even expose bugs, would it be worth that for something as easy as pulling down the master bus ?

I do gain staging on every mix. And i often run to the same issue you do. I'm constantly turning down faders within the course of mixing. I do this typically before any automation, Grabbing CTRL+all tracks selected makes it easy to adjust all at once. But i still end up having to adjust my Master bus fader after automation.

I hope it doesn't sound like i'm taking a dump on your feature request, just hoping to help you out in the meantime. The Master Bus will control all tracks even after gain staging is complete.

The problem I run into is that, by the time I'm done tracking and composing, the gain staging is soooooo screwed up, as in everything maxed out in offset and on the normal fader and on the gain, that I have to turn down everything really, really low. It would be exceptionally helpful, when I get ready to mix in earnest, to have a feature that takes into account the gain, the offset, and any volume envelopes and turns everything down by X dbs. It often takes me 30 minutes or more even to get to that point manually. 

Just turning down the input gain on master bus isn't a great solution for me because then it makes it easy for me to work at the tippy top of the settings for each fader and then just continue to turn down the input gain on the master bus. I'd rather just leave the master bus where it is and turn down every track and mix with good gain staging.

I seriously don't know how to explain it better than that. It'd just be very helpful to me. 

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On 2/7/2020 at 1:01 PM, Heinz Hupfer said:

HI:)

I tried to write a CAL Script, but:

 

It is not possible to read out the actual Volume level of a track, so you can't add or subtract a given amount.

The only way I found is the following:

1. Add a Midi Track and the best is to add it as the last track.

2. Remember the number of the track.

3. Copy my attached CAL Script to %Your Partition%\Cakewalk Content\Cakewalk Core\Cal Scripts

4. Make a shortcut to the CAL Script, perhaps Shift+P

5. Now Select all Tracks or press Ctrl+A

6. Right click on any Volume Fader, select a group color and make sure that the group is set to "relativ"

7. Look at the "Volume" Number on the added Miditrack (101 must be at the moment)

8. Press Shift+P or your attached shortcut for the CAL Script and type in the number of the track and the Volume (0-127)

If you want to have -3dB, type in (Your Miditrack) and 88 for the Volume. If you try some amounts (Ctrl+Z to Undo) you can see on your tracks how much dB you subtract.

 

BUT!

You can't adjust Volume on seperate Tracks, unless they are ungrouped.

No time anymore today, tomorrow I can make a Autohotkeyscript to automatically Group or ungroup all tracks and combine it with the cal script......should be possible!!

 

Greetz,

Bassman.

 

TrackVolume.cal 346 B · 0 downloads

Thank you!

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I heavily use envelopes on most of my tracks, I can't imagine a mix were I did not have many volume envelopes. So, adjusting the volume slider on these tracks it would just snap back. If I used a global volume tool there would still be the issue of needing to adjust my envelopes too.

I suppose though, at lease half of the work would be done with a tool like this. The alt feature seems to be the answer for the most part. I would prefer to hear the sonic quality in the gradual reduction. 

I rarely need to tweak the headroom of my trackbus but this would still be a helpful feature.

If there was a lower all volume envelopes by x% that might be helpful too but perhaps not perfect in its execution. All of this would still need manual tweaking because lower volumes mean a different phase makeup also I would think.

I keep the headroom low in the overall mix by maintaining the input (and output) of the prochannel never peaking above green. This insures that when my mix gets to the master bus I am always turning the mix up rather than down.

 

 

Edited by RexRed
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On 2/10/2020 at 1:50 AM, Jeremy Jensen said:

The problem I run into is that, by the time I'm done tracking and composing, the gain staging is soooooo screwed up, as in everything maxed out in offset and on the normal fader and on the gain, that I have to turn down everything really, really low. It would be exceptionally helpful, when I get ready to mix in earnest, to have a feature that takes into account the gain, the offset, and any volume envelopes and turns everything down by X dbs. It often takes me 30 minutes or more even to get to that point manually. 

I think you are asking for a feature to solve a problem that you created yourself and everyone else deals with using the normal tools/methods mentioned above.

The only real solution once you get down to it is learn to mix and use gainstaging properly. What did you do in the days when we all had analogue mixers and things like ADATs that would clip digitally if pushed to far ?  

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On 3/26/2020 at 2:51 PM, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

The only real solution once you get down to it is learn to mix and use gainstaging properly. What did you do in the days when we all had analogue mixers and things like ADATs that would clip digitally if pushed to far ?  

No. Actually, I proposed a solution that is very "real". A feature that lets you turn down everything by X DBs, including envelopes. If you don't like the feature, that's fine. You don't have to use it. RexRed thinks he would find it useful too. 

What did I do in the days when we all had analogue mixers and things like ADATs? I don't know. I never recorded with ADATs. I assume a lot of what I do in DAWs wouldn't translate to the days of mixers and ADATs. Bringing up decades old technologies in a proposed feature request for a DAW isn't exactly relevant.

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Posted (edited)

BTW, some of you don't seem to understand that this forum is for proposed features. I propose features that would be helpful to me. It's not really helpful, or possible even, for me to try to figure out, in advance, if a feature would be helpful for a broad swath of Cakewalk users before posting about it here. If I'm the only one asking for a particular feature, Cakewalk should just not implement it. It's that simple. Some folks are almost to the point of being offended if I ask for something that they personally wouldn't find useful. 

Edited by Jeremy Jensen
clarifies meaning

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15 hours ago, Jeremy Jensen said:

 Some folks are almost to the point of being offended if I ask for something that they personally wouldn't find useful. 

The reason you are only one asking is because you are asking developers to add a feature to fix a problem caused by you not knowing how to use the software properly i.e. gain staging

This article from SOS may help https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/gain-staging-your-daw-software

15 hours ago, Jeremy Jensen said:

 I don't know. I never recorded with ADATs. I assume a lot of what I do in DAWs wouldn't translate to the days of mixers and ADATs. Bringing up decades old technologies in a proposed feature request for a DAW isn't exactly relevant.

It's entirely relevant as the principles are the same ,  those who cut their teeth on  analogue equipment probably have a better fundamental understanding of how gain staging  works. You soon learn when a digital over can potentially fry your tweeters or when you're FOH mixing at a gig and the singers mic is feeding back because there's too much level ( gain before feedback as we call it )

 Lots of mixes are still done on analogue consoles as well even if the multi tracks are on the DAW now and also working live you especially need to know this stuff.

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