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Low level on exported Mp3 file from Sonar


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Hi to all members,


  I'm new to this forum and use Sonar as my home recording studio.
You have probably already dealt with the problem what I haw in the forum, for which I apologize. Namely, when exporting recordet material like Mp3 or WAV , this file is played in the widows player very quietly.
I do not find a solution to this problem. I use an ASIO driver in Sonar and a Focusritte Scarlet 18i8 USB 1 gen. as a playback and record device.
I ask for advice on how to resolve the issue.
Thank you

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On 1/2/2020 at 8:28 AM, Dusan Sustarsic said:

Hi to all members,


  I'm new to this forum and use Sonar as my home recording studio.
You have probably already dealt with the problem what I haw in the forum, for which I apologize. Namely, when exporting recordet material like Mp3 or WAV , this file is played in the widows player very quietly.
I do not find a solution to this problem. I use an ASIO driver in Sonar and a Focusritte Scarlet 18i8 USB 1 gen. as a playback and record device.
I ask for advice on how to resolve the issue.
Thank you

You need to mix so you can get it loud enough when you master it.  you need to master it to the proper LUFS levels. You can use RMS, but LUFS is more accurate as those meters usually come with short and long term peak reading and that helps a lot.

If you want to be as loud as everyone else, you need to do what everyone else does

Edited by CJ Jacobson
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2 hours ago, HIBI said:

It means sound levels what you hear when playing project on Cakewalk and when playing exported file on Windows player are not the same?

Yes,that I mean...Exported file is on much lower level.Bout 30%...or lower.Normalizing function is not on much help ....

I am allso surf around Internet and fined  guys with the same problem.Allso cant fined a solution for this behavior.

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No,there is no any effect's,compresor's and something like this....

It's yust Test stereo recording from my instrument on one track and exporting like Mp3 with  default setings.

In attachment is two files:first is CWP file from Sonar and

second is an exported Mp3.

In the same setings of main out volume on my Scarlett,Mp3 sound on much lower level...

Please play that two files on your computers and let me know how is sound's...

Thank you

Test 3.cwp Test10.mp3

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@Dusan Sustarsic Can't compare because it's only cwp file not contain audio file.

Re-import the exported audio file to project (just drop that file to empty area of the project track view pane in Cakewalk) and then compare what you hear when playing the project on Cakewalk and when playing re-imported file with no effects. Should be the same.

Just to be sure, make sure Windows player volume is full and output routing of Windows sounds it's sending to same channel of same audio interface as Cakewalk sends.

Edited by HIBI
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If all your tracks are routed to the Master Bus, and Master Bus is then used as the export source, the level of the exported project is exactly the same as the SONAR project (assuming the Master Bus level is set at 0)

It is not your ears, but the dB-levels  of the audio file that tell you the truth about the level of the project when played back in different systems. The volume settings of different software are seldom identical.
You can not get the "commercial level" using  only the volume sliders of the tracks.

To produce a loud mix, like the commercial ones, includes many factors. Some of which are:

-  Volume automation of individual tracks. A loud peak or phrase prevents you from raising the volume without clipping/distortion. The peak hits the roof. So you must either lower the loud part or raise the quite part to achieve a higher average volume. You may need to do partial automation on many tracks.

- Compression FX on individual tracks when needed. You get better results compressing a little at a time. So - a little compression on the track and some more in bus or Master Bus.any

- EQ of tracks and projects. ( a common problem is sub-frequencies of for example bass guitar, synths or piano , that produce volume, ie. raise the level meters to red, but are in fact almost inaudible to ear or too low for your loudspeakers) Use a frequency analyzer to find out the frequency content of your tracks. Compare that to commercial recordings.

- Limiting/compressing the project when exporting. 

 

 

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Thank you Hibi,

that is useful information.Dont know how to rout Windows player channel to the same as cakewalk use....?

Maybe that's the problem I'm dealing with.In Windows audio settings, on my computer is the default audio device, Focusritte.

That is the same device like Cakewalk use,but dont know how to rout to the same chanel.

Please for an advice....

Regards

Cakewalk Sonar.png

Nastavitve zvoka1.png

Edited by Dusan Sustarsic
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1 hour ago, Dusan Sustarsic said:

Nastavitve zvoka1.png

Set the slider to 100, not 48. I guess it's the cause.
Seems playback routing of Windows sound is ok. My audio interface has channels (like 1-2, 3-4...) for playback settings on Windows sound but seems Focusrite does not have them.

Edited by HIBI
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I don't know what kind of audio it is on the track  in the picture (if it's quiet jingle bells or loud power guitar), but it does look like a low level recording.

As I mentioned in my post above, it is no use talking about the volume of the exported track, if we don't know the RMS level ( or any freely worded comment on the desibel-levels.) of the Master Bus at export and that of the exported track. What you hear is  irrelevant if you're not aware of the actual level of the track. A volume slider can make a silent track play back loud, and vice versa, but it doesn't make it loud or silent.  And we can not answer any of your questions properly, before we know the levels you use at export and the levels of the exported track.

And, if I understood correctly, you mean your exported track is quiet compared to  commercial tracks. So if you play your track and a commercial track after another say, in Windows Player, with the same volume setting, and your own track is too quiet, it is obvious the problem can't be corrected with any play back settings anywhere: The level of the quiet track simply is low, in that case. The problem can only be corrected in SONAR or any other audio editor using FX and editing the project correctly.

 

Edited by Kalle Rantaaho
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On 1/7/2020 at 9:37 AM, Kalle Rantaaho said:

I don't know what kind of audio it is on the track  in the picture (if it's quiet jingle bells or loud power guitar), but it does look like a low level recording.

As I mentioned in my post above, it is no use talking about the volume of the exported track, if we don't know the RMS level ( or any freely worded comment on the desibel-levels.) of the Master Bus at export and that of the exported track. What you hear is  irrelevant if you're not aware of the actual level of the track. A volume slider can make a silent track play back loud, and vice versa, but it doesn't make it loud or silent.  And we can not answer any of your questions properly, before we know the levels you use at export and the levels of the exported track.

And, if I understood correctly, you mean your exported track is quiet compared to  commercial tracks. So if you play your track and a commercial track after another say, in Windows Player, with the same volume setting, and your own track is too quiet, it is obvious the problem can't be corrected with any play back settings anywhere: The level of the quiet track simply is low, in that case. The problem can only be corrected in SONAR or any other audio editor using FX and editing the project correctly.

Thank you Kalle for your input...,

apparently the core of my problem is the signal input. Is too low...
This is shown on the track in the picture. I tried to record with a larger input signal ,but there is a distortion here. I have no other option to increase the signal than the master volume on my keyboard.
The Focusrite 18i8 on the input channels 5 and 6 (keyboard input chanel's) does not allow the height of the input signal to be adjusted
So what is the marginal input signal setting that I should set in Sonar?This time dont talk about Comresor and ather staf.Just simple input signal withaut any FX.

Thanks again for the help and advice

On 1/7/2020 at 9:37 AM, Kalle Rantaaho said:

 

 

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If the input signal can not be adjusted in the audio interface I'm puzzled. As the idea, obviously, would be  having the tracks level slider set at 0 and then adjusting the input signal so that the tracks meter shows something like -12 - 18 dB , peaks maybe around -6. If I remember correctly, with Input Echo enabled the track meter shows the output level of the recording track.

There is something I'm missing now, because I can't think of a situation when you can't record loud enough without getting distortion. Someone wiser than me most likely spots the solution.

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I will attempt to help as well.

You should have software installed specifically for the Focusrite that will allow you better control over the hardware. If you don't have it check HERE

This works as a way to adjust the Focusrite directly.

There are ways to boost the level using the existing Pro Channel. Tube amp in the Pro channel will boost levels if you move the gain control. Also can adjust  compressor makeup gain, so you have two gain stages in the Pro Channel if needed.

Best to know the levels and adjust accordingly. Not over 0 db on master buss or signal will clip. Below -12 is usually low in the initial mix. A nice free way to look at levels can be downloaded HERE

There are lots of free limiters to be had online. HERE is just one example. Limiters can make material much louder. The sounds you hear in your studio might not be matched well to the way your track is played in other systems because you might have your monitor volume too high in relation to the actual  sounds. Your monitor volume should be set to the same volume other will have their systems at when they play the track. Limiters can be over used. Compressors can be over used. Mixing just takes time to learn but not as difficult as it might seem. Hope this helps.

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Prior to final mix and mastering, my project master volume is pretty low, as intended.  When I want to export an MP3 prior to finishing the mix and master, I just bump up the master bus volume temporarily, to get it to around -3 to -6 dBFS, just to get volume up to a level reasonably to where other song files play outside Cakewalk.  This is not saved like that, and is not to be considered comparable to anything with compression or even mixed - these exports are just for a snapshot of where the project is at that moment in time.

I could apply a limiter, etc.... but I just usually bring the gain up on the master bus just to do the export, and then reset it immediately after the  export.

Bob Bone

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OK so a level of -15 dBFS on the Master Bus, means your project's level is at a good level for recording, because you are in the digital world, not analog.  The reason that your volume is so low when you export your project to an MP3 file, is precisely because your project is about 10-12 dB LOWER than what commercial MP3 songs are mastered at.

This is not anything wrong - it is because your project has not been mixed or mastered, so it is still at the levels you would normally record at.  You haven't yet finished mixing and mastering it, so there is no compression and no limiter applied yet, to bring up the finished level to match what is a commercial level.

All of my projects are like that - I tend to work at levels of -18 dBFS when I record.  If I want to export the unfinished/unmixed/not-mastered project to MP3, then I do what I had explained in my earlier post - I simply temporarily raise the gain (using the Gain knob on the Master Bus), until the Master Bus plays back at a Peak level of -3 dBFS.  THEN I export to MP3, and the MP3 will be almost playing back at the loudness of a commercial MP3 .  As soon as I finish the export, I IMMEDIATELY return the Master Bus Gain knob to its prior setting - (likely 0 dB), so that my project plays back at its old level of -18 dBFS (yours would be at -15 dBFS).

I hope the above makes sense

Bob Bone

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