Diana Chahine

On 11/11/2023 at 12:59 AM, Promidi said:

Are you using balanced cables?

Yes. I'm only using a 1/4 to XLR cable from the keyboard to the AI. 

On 11/11/2023 at 1:30 AM, mettelus said:

They are XLR, so they should be, but they can get damaged over time. If you have a different cable available, that is worth trying as well for sure. Depending on environment, a broken XLR cable (or unbalanced in general) can act like a radio antenna.

As this is very specific to the hardware involved, it would also be worth contacting Focusrite and Yamaha directly. It seems that the keyboard is the real culprit. If phantom power is off does that persist? I read a couple posts saying that phantom power alone can cause static (seems limited to their mixers), but also found this thread which is concerning. The OP there was basically asking if keyboards have protection circuitry on the XLR outputs against phantom power surges, and the answers were a mixed bag. I would focus on contacting Yamaha customer service for sure with your make and model. Be sure to ask them specifically if connecting the XLR with phantom power can damage the keyboard connectors?

Does the keyboard also provide audio output jacks other than the XLR? That would be another path to try. The phantom power only gets passed through the XLR connections on the AI, so if you can connect it via 1/4" TRS cables (balanced) that would be another way to see if it is truly the XLR connector on the keyboard. A single 1/4" TRS can also be used to pass stereo from the headphone output, but would be unbalanced in that case (not necessarily bad, and definitely worth trying).

If it works fine with Direct Monitoring off, that is also an option. A bit of a nuisance, but an option for you.

Whenever powering equipment on or making/breaking connections, it is good practice to always have phantom power off, gain knobs all to zero, and even the equipment off in some cases for making connections.

I did try with a different 1/4 to XLXR cable and had to same trouble. I also connected my 1/4 cable to headphones to hear what it sounds likes directly and the static comes through there as well. So that definitely seems now like its a keyboard thing... ?

23 hours ago, John Vere said:

What is the model of the Yamaha keyboard? 
When you say you have the input turned way down this implies an impedance miss match. 
The direct monitoring is only making it obvious what the signal sounds like. So it’s a simple matter of sorting out the best configuration to connect the Yamaha. Example is it a model that send Audio via USB. 

I'm using the Yamaha DG650. Currently I am connecting directly from the keyboard to the AI with a 1/4 TRS to XLR, but I just figured that the 1/4 headphone cable also produces that same static. There's no static when the keyboard has nothing plugged in though, so I'm very confused.

3 hours ago, mettelus said:

That can for sure, but devices requiring phantom power are more susceptible to it. It doesn't make sense with the Direct Monitor only on though. If you record the keyboard with the direct monitor off, is that static baked into the recorded track?

Quick Edit: There seems to be a few posts with similar issues. A few were hardware related, but one guy in the middle of this thread posted:

"So, I had this problem, it was bugging me bad, but with some troubleshooting, the solution at least in my case was simple. I had to turn down the inputs I wasn't using. I was using it as a USB audio interface to play tracks from my computer in live performances. But it was hissing bad. But once I turned off direct monitoring switch and turned the levels all the way down on the knobs on the front for the two mic inputs, the hissing went completely away."

I just checked, and the input level is all the way down on the 2nd input. Ughh I wish that was the solution!

55 minutes ago, mettelus said:

This part is a little odd to me. It seems sort of like a ground loop (you can try plugging everything into the same outlet for a common ground), but could also be something like the mic putting out mic levels, and the keyboard putting out line level voltage (which is higher). I do not have the 2i2, but there should be a setting for mic/line inputs on it. If that is set to "line" when using the keyboard does the problem persist?

A word of caution with phantom power (especially with condenser mics) is never make/break an XLR connection with the phantom power on. If you ever did that with the keyboard, it could also be an issue, but if it runs fine without Direct Monitor on, that seems very unlikely.

Yea, it doesn't make a difference whether it's set to line or inst, the static is still there.

Oh, I'm sure I have plugged/unplugged while the phantom power is on before... does that create irreversible damage??

11 hours ago, mettelus said:

Flashing lights on hardware are typically codes for a fault. From this link on Focusrite's website this may be it:

"However, if you find the gain or USB LEDs flash on and off constantly when your interface is connected, it usually means it is not able to draw enough power from your computer. Windows may also continue to attempt to connect the device, often denoted by a chime sound."

When operating that interface, be sure you always have the laptop plugged in. Many laptops have inherent power saving mechanisms to conserve the battery if unplugged (like shutting off USB ports). Is the laptop plugged in and your power settings set to always on? The advanced power options in Windows are where you can surgically disable Windows from shutting off things, but some laptops also have their own proprietary software for power management... if yours has that, often there is a "disable when plugged in" option of some sort.

 

Thank you for that! I did that (and also uninstalled some Windows updates), and I don't have those flashing lights anymore, so that problem is solved. HOWEVER, I now have this static sound when my Keyboard XLR is plugged in. I don't even have to be using it for there to be that static, however that only happens with the Direct Monitor is on. In contrast, when I plug in my mic's XLR to the same channel, with the exact same levels of gain, and basically every setting the exact same, there's no static whatsoever, it's crystal clear... so is the the keyboard XLR the culprit? It's weird because just a week ago everything was completely fine, so I'm not sure what would have changed.

I've had this same setup for the past year and have never had any problems with it until today:

Audio Interface: Focusrite Scarlett (3rd gen) 2i2

Cakewalk

Rode USB Mic - connected to AI with XLR

Yamaha Keyboard - connected to AI with XLR

Usually I plug in the XLR to the keyboard, the AI into the laptop, and I can start recording right away, however tonight the light kept flashing red-yellow-green, there was no audio output on Cakewalk, and there was a LOT of static. I updated Focusrite, restarted my computer, unplugged and plugged everything in, and the same thing happened. I tested out the Mic, and everything operated perfectly fine on that.

Does that mean the issue is solely with the keyboard's XLR cord or is there some setting I need to change?

2 hours ago, John Vere said:

I think it was a long way back in this thread that that was my conclusion. Because nothing else made sense. I sure hope this works as normally it's not this much of a hassle to set up a DAW.  

I didn't think it would be! Thanks to everyone for your patience in dealing with this thread! I'll keep y'all updated on how things work out when I get the new one!

9 hours ago, DeeringAmps said:

Diana I've been causally following your thread (disappointed no M-Audio users have chimed in).

Does the interface have its own mixer app?
(I'll do a little research, downloaded the manual and it does not look like it)

I'm an RME user, and TotalMix (RME's internal app) controls routing in the interface.
Its tremendously powerful, but a bit confusing/overwhelming at first use.

Others have mentioned this, but somehow you have to hearing phase issues on the stereo tracks.
Sounds like its playing back from Cakewalk and the Interface, which could explain why the "blend"
knob isn't working correctly. (if the TotalMix is setup wrong I could do this with my RME interfaces)

You in the States?

t

No, I'm in Canada.

Apparently, it seems that the issue is a manufacturing defect... I heard back from the Amazon tech where I ordered it from and they'll be sending me a replacement so hopefully that will work out better!

On 1/21/2021 at 1:26 PM, Max Arwood said:

I noticed one thing.  You said only mono sounds good.  I saw that you have your master set mono.  It should never be mono.  Try all three - both channels and the master to stereo.  Also  you must have input monitoring turned on to cause the echo.

 

When everything is set to stereo that's when the audio sounds bad, although to clarify, the echo is from the imported audio track, not on my recorded track...

On 1/21/2021 at 11:50 AM, Hatstand said:

Hi Diana, as Noel and John have pointed out, turning off one of the hardware outputs isn't a solution but does provide more information.

As far as the direct\usb knob is concerned it is strange that the volume decreases between 80% direct and 100% direct when there is no software involved as this should only be affecting the mic input volume. There can always be the possibility of volume changes when the software is involved as this depends on the output volume of the software. Even without using Cakewalk if you listen to a youtube video with the Windows speaker output set to your audio interface output at 100% and the knob turned all the way to usb, you should hear the video sound and moving the knob towards direct will decrease the video sound down to zero at 100% direct but you would still hear the mic input.

As Noel says there could be an issue with your backing track. One way to check would be to have two copies of the stereo track on separate tracks, then pan one hard left and the other hard right, both sending their outputs to the master then click the phase button on one track and see if it makes it better or worse. The phase button is a circle with a line through it.

As Noel said it may help to attach a copy of the project file to a post. There are instructions in the manual of how to save and find a project file. As John mentioned there are loads of youtube tutorials available. There are links on the forum area for tutorials.

I did try listening to a youtube video through the AI as the output, and the sound came out very garbled for some reason. As if someone was running water over the audio... Does that mean there's a potential problem with the interface itself??

Just as an update...

 - I've factory reset my laptop

 - I've re-downloaded Cakewalk and the ASIO driver for my AI

 - I've watched the Creative Sauce videos on how to set up Cakewalk and the AI.

And I'm still having the same problems. The audio track that was inputted sounds echo-y unless either the left fader or the right fader it muted on the hardware console, and the USB/Direct knob still isn't working correctly.

I've also encountered a new problem... if I have one track and record on that, I can hear my voice on playback, but as soon as I add in another track (without changing anything else) and record, I can't hear my voice on playback anymore, just static.

14 hours ago, Hatstand said:

Hi Diana, so it looks like you have established that the direct works but if I understand you correctly you are saying that even if you have nothing plugged into an input, when you play back from Cakewalk the sounds still come through your headphones even if you have the knob turned fully to direct?

In regards to your stereo audio track sounding better in mono have a look at what is going through the hardware outputs on cakewalk. You can see this from the console view and selecting to show hardware output strips as per the screenshot below;

.;

You should see signal going through both channels of your hardware output(the red faders). If so then try pulling the fader down on the left then the right channel to check if both channels are getting through to your audio interface. If not (or the left and right both work but sound completely different) that could be your issue.

You are a GENIUS!! Turns out if I mute either the left fader or the right fader then it sounds perfectly fine!! THANK YOU!!

I'll try to explain as best I can what's going on with the Direct/USB Knob:

 - Outside of Cakewalk, I do hear the mic when the knob is turned towards Direct, however the loudest volume of the mic isn't when the knob is all the way to the Direct end - but about 80% there.

 - Within Cakewalk, (and when I'm live recording while listening to a track output), both tracks will increase in volume when turned to the Direct end. But, as I mentioned above, the loudest sound happens when the knob is turned about 80% to the Direct end. There's no sound AT ALL  when the knob is actually turned all the way to the Direct end). When turning the knob toward the USB end, both tracks decrease in volume, and I can't hear either the mic or the track.

So, in short, the blend knob doesn't actually increase/decrease each track independently, but rather increases both or decreases both.

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

And I repeat- The blend knob has nothing to do with playback mixing of tracks. It is the output from the computer blended with your LIVE input.   the track balance is adjusted with track faders.  You originally led me to believe you couldn't hear your mike in the headphones saying the control turned everything up or down.  

The questions I have for you, and it's important because your interface is probably not defective

1. You  set the blend knob to the middle.  You set the headphone level at about 1 o clock and the main output volume around 10 o clock. 

2.  When you play a track from Cakewalk you can hear the playback of the track in your headphones and/or monitors.

3. You plug your mike into input 1 and set the gain up until the level is just below cliping and you can also hear that in your headphones.  

4. You can adjust the balance between your mike and playback by moving the blend control left or right. 

If this is all working then there is nothing wrong with your mike or interface. 

If you could post a sample of these wave files your using as backing tracks that might help trouble shoot. Use the insert other media or post a link to the web site you downloaded from. 

And as I have mentioned a few times as well, even during a LIVE input through the audio interface, turning the blend track does NOT blend the live mic input with the audio output. Turning the blend knob to the right or left only increases the volume of both tracks or decreases the volume of both tracks. 

8 hours ago, Hatstand said:

Just a thought but with your microphone and headphones plugged into the interface and the direct/usb knob turned fully to direct do you hear your microphone without running cakewalk?

Yes, I can hear the mic without cakewalk. Interesting!! But, I never had a problem with recording input. Just the output sounds bad, and the USB/Direct knob wasn't blending...?

On 1/17/2021 at 9:00 AM, John Vere said:

Yes I highly recommend Focusrite But that said the comparable model would be the 4i4. It is also only bus powered.  You would need the 8i6. So the price point takes a jump. That’s the model I want if I give up on the Motu. My other pick is the Tascam 4x4 because it has a power supply. 
you sort of have to make a wish list and go on a site like Sweetwater and look at features vs price.

my list is 

2 mike inputs 

2 or 4 line inputs 

4 outputs 

2 headphones (optional) 

good front panel controls 

midi ports

power supply 

Also some interfaces like Focusrite come with a lot of free stuff. I got nothing with the Motu. But say you pay $50 more for a Focusrite but you get that back in fee stuff 4x
 

Wouldn't the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 be comparable to what I have since it has 2 inputs...?

11 hours ago, John Vere said:

I'm sorry but I'm at a loss. 

I can only think 

1- Your interface is defective if you say you can't hear your mike when you turn the blend control to direct. 

You normally would be overloaded the input  when you turn a gain control up that hi. A Phantom powered condenser mike. Possibly your interface is bus powered and the mike is starved for juice? 

2- Try re installing the drivers for the interface. 

3- Try re installing CbB 

4- If you bought the interface from a store that you can return it to exchange it for a interface that has a power supply. Tell them it's not working properly. The distortion could also be related to the interface. Example I had to purchase a USB 3 PCI card for my bus powered Motu M4 to resolve garbled playback issues. It wasn't getting enough juice. Its fine now. You solution would have to be a powered USB hub. A good one. 

Yea, I have no idea what's going on! Thank you for trying though! I bought the interface online, but I think I can return it. I've tried contacting M-Audio's customer service, but so far no response from them, although I did just find out that there's an M-Audio forum, so I'll try there as a last resort.

I've seen that the reviews for the Focusrite interfaces are much better, would that be something that works better for me, you think? There' doesn't seem to be any driver incompatibilities etc...

Like I said, with every track I import, the echo is there, unless I change the Interleave to Mono. All of these tracks are actually in Stereo, but even when I've opened new projects, with an empty template, basic template etc. the sound doesn't change unless I change it on the Console view to Interleave: Mono.

In regards to the USB/Direct knob: Even while I'm recording it still only acts as a volume knob. I've even set my gain at 9/10 giving my mic a greater input but that hasn't changed anything either.

29 minutes ago, John Vere said:

This might explain the bad sound of the downloaded music track. I would assume it is a stereo track like shown in my video. This interleave would be stereo not mono. If it is a mono track then it might not be very good choice for a backing track. 

I did watch your video, thanks for doing that! That is how it's all set up though... 

But in terms of the Stereo vs. Mono: The imported track IS stereo, but for some reason only plays with good quality when put into Interleave Mono. When it's in Stereo it becomes metallic-y and echo-y. I've tried many tracks (which I know for a fact ARE stereo tracks), but it only plays back right when put into Interleave Mono.

Here is my console view, so I'm not sure if there's anything in there that needs changing? I've also found that when both recording, and on playback, that the sound will just disappear at random times. Nothing will be changed, and there won't be an audio engine dropout or anything, (the track will keep "playing", but it will all go silent... 

12 hours ago, John Vere said:

It’s not an issue. It is working correctly by what you say. It has nothing to do with the balance between recorded tracks. It is to balance your mike input with the computer playback WHILE RECORDING. After you have recorded a track the channel faders control the playback level of each track. If these are not working correctly then you are somehow sending the tracks via a aux or effects send   The stereo interleave should not change the sound. 
 

What template did you use to start the project? 

Even while I'm recording it only acts as a volume knob. I've even set my gain at a 9/10 giving my mic a greater input but that hasn't changed anything either.

I used the basic template.

27 minutes ago, SteveC said:

Just curious... does the playback quality change any if you solo track 2?    If not, do you have any Sends enabled? 

Also, when you bypassed FX did you use the FX button in the Control Bar's Mix module?  That's the surefire way to do it. 

 

I fixed one problem!! By changing the Interleave-Stereo to Interleave-Mono it plays the track normally! No more metallic or echo sounds!!

Now I just gotta figure out the USB/Direct knob issue!

6 hours ago, John Vere said:

I think this is the heart of the issue- You are still not grasping how this system works. I see this thread started in November! That's a long time to wait.  Sorry this is hard stuff to understand if your brand new to recording but everyone goes through the process. 

And you still didn't answer an important question. Are you monitoring with headphones or studio monitors attached to the Audio Interface.  Your laptops system should not be used when in ASIO mode,, only your interface. 

I think from the start your confusion is that the recorded tracks are controlled by the interface. As I said way back the level of recorded tracks are controlled by the faders of each track. Not the interface. That control is for setting input/ record levels. 

Not sure why your music files sound different than the recorded track, Did you make sure there are no effects on that track? Look in the Pro Channel or BYpass all effects using the toggle. 

I just started this thread on Sunday, so definitely not since November! I'd still like to figure this out ASAP though!

I did answer your question, maybe you didn't see my response to it?

7 hours ago, Diana Chahine said:

I'm listening via headphones through the headphone output on the AI and yes, nothing is heard when the Master is muted.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "faders of each track". I've been going into the Console and adjusting the volume of both tracks, but that hasn't made a difference. Is that what that is? And there's definitely no effects. I've bypassed them all too,  to be sure.

6 hours ago, scook said:

Please post images of these preference screens on your PC

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=0x22B19

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=0x20075

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=0x22B17

Double check the sample rate setting in the software supplied with M-Audio Interface and make sure it agrees with the sample rate set in CbB preferences (the last link above)

The USB/Direct Knob will act as a volume knob if there is no signal at the M-Audio inputs. This is because, the knob mixes the signal from these inputs with the signal coming from the PC. All the way counterclockwise is 100% USB (the signal from the DAW) and 100% clockwise is the signal from the M-Audio Inputs.

2 hours ago, Kevin Perry said:

To me, this sounds like you have the tracks going to 2 destinations simulataneously (master and direct to the hardware), and if the master is then also going to the hardware output, then potentially you are going to get some phasing (you shouldn't, but there may be something else afoot here) which will affect the sound quality in the way you describe.

I may be misunderstanding your routing however.

The possibility of phasing does make sense! But the same thing occurs when I set the tracks to go to the same destination (such as the AI as the output).

15 hours ago, John Vere said:

OK. So what you are saying is when you play back a sound track file on any music player it’s fine But when you import it to Cakewalk and use ASIO drivers it sounds Metallic. When you play the same file with Cakewalk and WASAPI mode it sounds fine  

Let’s narrow this down  

When you use ASIO is you master bus going to different speakers? 

Are you listening with headphones or studio monitors connected to your interface?

The metallic sound seems like a good description of what laptops built in speakers sound like. 
 

Double check your output by muting the master bus you should hear nothing 

In short, I still have 2 problems:

1.   Metallic sounding imported tracks

2.   USB/Direct knob blending not working

In regards to # 1, Yes, all imported music tracks sound fine when played outside of Cakewalk (or within Cakewalk on a different driver than ASIO). However, with ASIO set as the driver, imported tracks sound metallic when sent to the AI output AND Master output. The recorded track from the AI input sounds fine regardless of what output device I set it to. And like I said, audio sounds fine when the output is my laptop speakers (although I only have the option of setting my laptop speakers as the output with a WASAPI driver (not the ASIO), and my AI only works properly with the ASIO driver.

In regards to #2, the USB/Direct knob seems to act purely as a volume knob right now. It doesn’t blend the two tracks together whatsoever. It either decreases the volume of both when turning it one way, or increases the volume of both by turning it in the opposite direction. And this is the same regardless of what output I have both tracks set to.

I'm listening via headphones through the headphone output on the AI and yes, nothing is heard when the Master is muted.

I’m really wondering if I should just return this M-Audio interface and get the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 interface instead, since I’ve seen that there aren’t as many problems with its drivers…

20 minutes ago, John Vere said:

We as slowly getting somewhere so just hang in there and we’ll get you on track. Pun intended 

OK so the sound of the track you recorded into track 1 sounds fine on playback but the download file sucks. This tells me you have everything working properly but there’s an issue with that particular file. 
What does that file sound like when you play it in Windows media player?

Haha I appreciate your help!!

The track sounds fine in every other player and sounds fine when the output is set to my laptop speakers (when on the WASAPI shared driver). All tracks I import sound metallic, even though they're all normal sounding otherwise.

19 hours ago, John Vere said:

So just to be clear. When you say "The recorded track" is that the new track you are recording or is this a already recorded track in Cakewalk?

 If it is, then yes of course it will be part of the "USB" output. The Direct  is for monitoring you live mike input of the interface. When you use headphones and speak into your mike, it should be louder when you turn the control towards direct. It will go quiet when turned towards USB. 

The mix the levels of the all ready recorded tracks are balanced by the track level controls. And as I pointed out you best make all tracks run through the master bus. in your screen shot this was not happening. 

I have made both tracks run through the master bus output and that hasn't changed anything either.

Track 1 is the track that I am recording with my mic/AI, and that output sounds just fine.

Track 2 is an audio track that's been imported (ex. instrumental), with its output sounding metallic/echo-y. 

Regardless of what output I set both of these, I end up in the same scenario. Either both tracks increasing in volume when the USB/Direct knob is turned one way, or both tracks decreasing in volume when turned the other way.