Jim Roseberry

FWIW, I chose to download the Orchestra Anthology volume 1 to D:\Roland.

It downloaded the installer to that location.

Running the installer from that location, the library was not installed in D:\Roland.

1 hour ago, azslow3 said:

I am still periodically look into direction "free" from "Roland"... Well. I have tried Tera piano. Just to find out that: (a) "concerto" is unable to work with 64 samples buffer (all cores start do "something", even so nothing is played; and no, my computer is not so slow), check under 2 DAWs, with 2 different interfaces, with 128 samples everything ok and consumes no CPU (b) there is almost no dynamics (tried all presets), I mean fff is still mf-f.

So, to render some piano MIDI for free it is good (for me better then other free piano solutions I have tried). But there are good reasons why it is "discontinued"...

You posted this right as I was typing the same exact finding.😃

Loaded the Tera Piano.

For the file size, it's not particularly great.  I can't hear much (any?) velocity switching.

Running in VST Live (new live host from Steinberg), the Concerto instrument (with Tera Piano loaded) overloads the CPU at small ASIO buffer sizes.

I'm testing on a machine running an i9 12900ks CPU  (16 cores, 5.5GHz).  That's the fastest CPU (for DAW purposes) currently available.

Just loaded the first Orchestra Anthology Volume 1... and it loads/runs just fine.

Pretty sure the issue with Tera Piano is a bug.

The Orchestral Anthology Volume 1 sound pretty decent.

The Patch browsing (compared to Zenology) is tedious.

ie:  You can't use the arrow keys on a keyboard to move up/down the list of patches.   Mouse only (unless I've missed something)

10 minutes ago, TW5011 said:

If I recall correctly, there is talk of there being some type of wrapper that compiles CLAP plugins into VST3 and AU without any extra work,

Whenever I see "wrapper"... I think potential performance/stability issues.

Time will tell...

1 hour ago, Magic Russ said:

Ron Kuper used to brag that the DX format supported all that stuff years before as well.

I'm worried that CLAP is going to turn into just another format that more people have to support.  AAX and AU aren't going away, and I doubt VST will.  CLAP is going to have to be so much better to even make a dent.

Yeah, I remember Ron saying the same things.

My feelings about CLAP mirror yours.  I think it'll have to be vastly superior to actually take hold.

I've got a Suhr Modern Select with Pau Ferro fingerboard.  It (not I) sounds and plays great.  

I would describe it exactly as above (right between Rosewood and Maple).

If you otherwise like the guitar, I wouldn't give it a second thought.

18 hours ago, Kevin Perry said:

They're on the list as interested...

I realize I'm coming off sounding negative, but "interested" (as in checking it out) isn't the same as supporting/adopting.

I remember Noel talking about how most (if not all) features/capabilities of VST3 could have been implemented in VST2.

VHS vs BETA:

BETA had some benefits... but few cared enough to embrace it over the much more popular VHS format.

2 hours ago, Pollux said:

Do you have data to support this ? I use DP10 alongside CbB, ProTools and Waveform, and I don't notice any major difference in low latency audio performance

I wouldn't make such a claim without first-hand experience.  😉

I'm always looking to push the limits of low-latency audio performance (that's my job).

With that in mind, I'm running both 12900ks and 5050x based DAWs (fastest ultra low latency performance currently available).

Antelope Thunderbolt interfaces yield super low round-trip latency.

ie: The Orion Studio Synergy Core yields 1ms total roundtrip latency at 96k using a 32-sample ASIO buffer size.

At those settings, open up an instance of Helix Native (Line-6 software plugin version of the Helix hardware guitar processor).

Load a substantial patch using something like the "Placater" (Friedman BE-100) amp model.

Run this quick test in all the major DAW applications:

• Digital Performer - audio glitches badly
• Cakewalk - audio is mostly clean
• Studio One - audio is completely clean
• Nuendo - audio is completely clean
• Cubase - audio is completely clean
• ProTools - audio is completely clean
• Reaper - audio is completely clean

This is a quick/easy way to get substantial load on the CPU... at extremely small buffer sizes.

DP is by far the worst performer of the bunch. 

So much so... I don't even bother installing DP on my machines.

43 minutes ago, abacab said:

You should consider that many developers have struggled with implementing the VST3 "standard" in a 100% stable and compatible fashion. They are the ones pushing for this change, not end users or management.

This standard appears to be more MIDI 2.0 and MPE friendly. There are no license fees, and if the development costs to write plugins with this method is the same or cheaper, it's a no-brainer for the business. Stay tuned...

Based on what I'm seeing (from current adopters), those pushing for CLAP are developers pushing the limits of polyphonic parameter modulation.

I'm certainly not against it... but that's not the vast majority of developers and end-users.

Look at MPE support with hardware instruments.  I'm all for it... but many folks use MIDI controllers without channel-aftertouch... let alone polyphonic.

What is Avid going to gain by supporting CLAP?  Keep in mind they never adopted VST as a plugin standard.

16 hours ago, ALC said:

I have Performer Lite that came with my M4.  Any compelling reason for me to use it?  I mainly using Studio One Pro.

If you're talking low latency audio performance, DP is the worst performing of all the major DAW apps.

Some cool features (especially for composers)... but terrible performance.

Terrible name...  (What were they thinking?)

While I have no doubt about the benefits, it's hard to bump an industry standard plugin format.

Bitwig and U-he are the only "major" software/plugin vendors currently onboard.

Bigger companies are going to be reluctant to make a change.

Unless the entire industry adopts "CLAP" (that just sounds wrong), it's over before it's begun.

Makes my lungs hurt just looking at that guitar.  🤪

1 hour ago, Amicus717 said:

My Presonus gives me everything I need, at least right now. Really enjoy using it. 

I have heard Antelope has awesome hardware and converters, but I've also heard rumblings that Antelope's drivers can be a bit twitchy. Any truth to that?

Quantum is a great audio interface.  It literally set the bar for ultra low round-trip latency performance.

Antelope drivers (with current generation hardware) have been rock-solid.

My audio interface also functions as a mixer/patch-bay... so the extra DSP/routing comes in handy.

I have keyboards plugged-in, Helix and Quad Cortex guitar processors, etc.

Antelope has a way of making certain things more complicated than need be. 

The name Orion Studio Synergy Core says a lot...  🤪

Once you understand patching/routing, the interfaces really aren't hard to operate.

Back on-topic to the 88m:

I'd expect those preamps to sound good... for onboard preamps.

If you're expecting them to sound like a 1073, Portico-II, or Shelford preamp... you're going to be disappointed.

The transformer from those preamps wouldn't fit in the 88m's chassis.

Even with 500 series preamps, Neve has mentioned preamp design (by comparison to their full-size counterparts) has compromises to keep size/cost down.

Whether that matters... is up to each individual.

To my ears, the transformer is a big part of the Neve sound.

33 minutes ago, Last Call said:

Those guys want to sell!

Neve and RME don't. 

I'm not looking to argue, but you do realize that there are vastly MORE machines that don't have a USB-C port, right?

Any machine made in the last decade has USB-3 type A.

That's why... when you buy a Focusrite Scarlet, it comes with a USB-C to USB-2 type A cable.    😉

I've got a new MBP here (16" display, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD).

The latest series has three Thunderbolt ports (via USB-C), HDMI, and back to dedicated magnetic power-port.

You can get a nice "mini-hub" that takes one of the USB-C ports and provides four USB-3 ports.

The MBP is here to support VE Pro users (not used for any heavy-lifting as I have both 5950x and 12900ks based workstations).

4 hours ago, Amicus717 said:

I read somewhere (I think Sound On Sound), that the one USB3 device they tested that had really good low latency performance was the RME Fireface UFX+, which they said matched it's TB performance (the interface has both connectors). They said RME's implementation and drivers were the difference maker. I was tempted by the UFX+ when I was shopping for a new interface, but opted for the Presonus Quantum (based in part on Jim's advice), and am very happy I did; for all-midi dudes like me, TB is pretty awesome. 

FWIW, I used a RME UFX+ for a couple years.

I used it connected via Thunderbolt.

Round-trip latency via Thunderbolt wasn't particularly great (just above 4ms total round-trip latency).

Connected via USB-3, round-trip latency was just a tiny bit higher.

Presonus Quantum can achieve 1ms total round-trip latency @ 96k using a 32-sample ASIO buffer size.

Fireface UFX+ can't come anywhere close to that. 

The driver won't let you use small ASIO buffer sizes if you're running at higher sample-rates.

ie:  If you're running at 96k, you can't use a 32-sample ASIO buffer size.

If you're wanting a Thunderbolt audio interface that offers round-trip latency on par with the Presonus Quantum... along with onboard DSP for processing/routing, I'd steer you toward the Antelope interfaces.

I'm currently running an Orion Studio Synergy Core... which replaced both my RME Fireface UFX+ and Presonus Quantum (it has the best features of both).

39 minutes ago, Last Call said:

It's  massively ***** to use anything but a USB C port/connection.

Don't get me started... 😡

(this isn't about transfer speed btw).

Why?

USB-C carries more power... but it's still a compromise when you're talking 48v phantom power (for bus-powered audio interfaces).

Every audio interface that has a USB-C port (read the manual) is actually a USB-2 device.  Thus, there's no performance advantage when connected via USB-C (vs a type-A USB-2 port).

Two channels of I/O is nowhere near saturating the bandwidth of USB-2.

There's currently no USB-3 audio interface that out-performs the best USB-2 audio interfaces.  Ironically, most USB-3 audio interfaces have higher round-trip latency.

FWIW, Every audio interface (that I'm aware of) that has USB-C port... is actually a USB-2 audio interface.

The USB-C port is a slight advantage for bus-powered devices (carries more power)... but it would offer no performance advantage.

If 88m were a Thunderbolt audio interface, that could allow lower round-trip latency.

I'm not a fan of any bus-powered audio interface.  There's always a design compromise when dealing with 48v phantom power.

Sad one for sure.

The newly released Prophet 10 (and Prophet 5) are outstanding.

Dave Smith somewhat recently collaborated with Tom Oberheim to release the Sequential OB6.

Shame to see him pass... when there's somewhat of a renaissance with analog synths.

On 3/25/2022 at 3:56 PM, jesse g said:

Believe it or not, There are a lot of rappers who can actually sing.  Case in point, Queen Latifah has a very nice voice and has put out an album with just her singing. The album goes by her birth name, Dana Owen.   Below, she is singing a song she performed back in 2010. 

 

Check out the Album,  Dana Owen, My favorite is number 6.

Sounds great!

Reminds me of Mark Tremonti singing Frank Sinatra (he sounds amazing doing it - who would have known).

2 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

For the DAW or video editor, the question is- What do I need to make this happen?

Working with video footage (especially 4k) is a whole lot more demanding than multi-track audio.

Realtime video processing (chroma-key, particle effects, etc) can bring even the fastest machine to its knees.

A couple years back, I did a one-minute 3D Animation with Cinema 4D (1920 x 1080).

It was a scene of a simulated studio control room.

With a 9900k, the render took over 24 hours.

1 hour ago, Paul Young said:

Not always better either.   There's a reason why the GTA and CoD games always sell.  They are playable on most systems.  I still fail to see the attraction of Fortnie other that is can be played on anything.

I don't play any video games.

I spend all day every day working with computers.

I like my down-time away from them.  

1 hour ago, Paul Young said:

When you do this as a hobby somewhere you need to get a grasp knowing you aren't going to do 400 tracks but I guess it's there if you need it.  It's like knowing you'll never be good enough at guitar to where you will play in front of people but yet get a high end PRS.

It's not just about running 400 tracks.

It's about being able to effectively work at super small ASIO buffer sizes.

Some newer audio interfaces (Antelope, Presonus Quantum, etc) allow round-trip latency as low as sub 1ms.

ie: Playing thru guitar processing plugins (in realtime) at 1-2ms total round-trip latency are now possible/practical (while running a project).

You can't do that with an older/slower machine.

May not seem like a big deal, but that makes the playing experience similar to playing thru an Axe-FX, Helix, Quad Cortex, etc.

Developers will always find a way to use faster CPUs.

Things we take for granted today (Melodyne, etc) weren't possible back in Cakewalk Pro Audio 6.0 days.

I could run 48+ tracks back then... but software based reverb/etc was primitive (Cakewalk's reverb was mono).

Quality of plugins has increased dramatically.

BTW, You don't have to be a world-class chef or food-critic to enjoy a great steak or glass of wine.

PRS guitars are wonderful instruments... whether you're a world-class player... or just a hobbyist.

There's SE (import), S2 (US with some import hardware), Core (USA), Wood Library, and Private Stock 

Hi Steve,

You can typically push the 2600k to 4.5GHz.

If you're already running it there, you can't push it any further (with rock-solid stability).

Clock-speed will certainly help with low-latency audio performance.

1 hour ago, jackson white said:

I sure hope so.  CPU cooling/fan noise are an issue for the rack mounted systems here and the latest Alder Lake (3.6GHz?) is cranking it up even further.  I recently O/C'd an i7 to scope out VST CPU load and saw CPU temps running at the edge of my comfort zone...  

Have not given water cooling a shot yet based on mixed and unconfirmed anecdotal hearsay wrt to reliability, but ambient temps are not getting any lower... 

There's a reason why we don't offer the 10900k and 10900ks in a rack case.  😉

I had one of the first Pong games that allowed up to 4 players.

Nothing like what the kids have today.  (obviously)

Water Cooling can be extremely quiet... IF... you pick the right cooler.

The key is getting one with pump noise ~10dB.

I've got both 12900ks and 5950x based DAWs.

For maximum performance, you can't run either one without water-cooling.  (Same is true with the 10980xe)

Well... you can... but it'll thermal-throttle under heavy loads (rendering video), which kind of defeats the purpose.  😉

On YouTube, you'll see some folks running ThreadRipper (280w TDP) with a NH-U14S cooler. 

It runs... but nowhere near full potential.

With 280w TDP, there is no building a "quiet" machine.  To add insult to injury, the motherboard chipsets are active cooled (small fan).

For these reasons... and poor ultra low latency performance, I won't build ThreadRipper based DAWs for myself or clients.

With Ryzen 5k series, AMD finally got their ultra low latency performance together.

Ultra low latency performance wise, Intel's 11th Generation 11900k was actually a step backward (vs the 10900k).

Ryzen 5950x bests the 10900k and 11900k (both single-core and multi-core performance).

The 12900k then leap-frogged the 5950x (both single-core and multi-core performance).

The latest 12900ks is basically a 12900k that can clock up to 5.5GHz (vs 5.2GHz for the 12900k).

If you're pushing the limits of ultra low latency performance, the 12900ks is currently the best performer.

Working at say 1ms total round-trip latency is not something that lends itself to being heavily multi-threaded.

Clock-speed is the single most important factor.

With the 12900ks, you've got highest clock-speed available... and 16 cores (best of both worlds).