Jim Roseberry

26 minutes ago, bluzdog said:

I think you mic the amp cabinet, route that to the tonex input, take the out from tonex to the amp input and tell tonex to do it's thing. That said I don't have Tonex, this is how it's done on the Quad Cortex which seems similar. Whatever you do make sure any tube amps have a load or cab hooked up so you don't cause damage  to an output transformer.

You are exactly right.  You select the desired ASIO driver... then assign the following ports (you can use one or two mics):

• Monitor L/R outputs
• Send to Rig (feed going to the Amp input)
• Mic input 1
• Mic input 2
• Instrument input (guitar)

As you mentioned, it's very similar to setting up a Capture using Quad Cortex.

Note that if your audio interface doesn't have proper re-amp functions (many don't), you'll need a re-amp DI box.

If you completely disable PBO, it won't hit 95 degrees C under substantial load.  😉

FWIW, That's kind of neutering the CPU.  Might as well go with the 12700k.

I've currently got a nice under-volt... with 5.2GHz all-core.  Super quiet... and not roasting the CPU

Can run ToneX at 96k using a 16-sample ASIO buffer size (~0.5ms total round-trip latency).

Cinebench R23 multi-core performance is 38,954... (higher than when PBO is set to allow throttling up to 5.75GHz).

Like the 5950x, the 7950x is somewhat of a "tweaker's build".  Finding the sweet-spot performance/noise wise takes a little time.

17 hours ago, lmu2002 said:

I'm curious about the 7950x. What happens if you just let it run hot with a regular cooler? Does the performance suffer? Which temp is the highest until throttling?

I've been reading some confusing results about this.

When the 7950x is running at 95 degrees Celsius, fan RPMs are maximum (meaning loud).

Even with the best 420mm water-cooler, if you don't under-volt, the 7950x will hit 95 degrees C under substantial load.

There's no way an air-cooler (even a D15 with two 140mm fans) is going to be able to dissipate enough heat (when the 7950x is under substantial load).

When it comes to a DAW, we have the delicate balance of performance AND noise.

It makes no sense to get a high-end "workstation" CPU... and cripple it with inadequate cooling.

FWIW, The 12700k runs fine with quality air-cooling.

Cool and quiet...

1 hour ago, jackson white said:

have done well with 4U rack mounts using i7s with active fan control, basic passive cooled GPUs and SSDs.  we could go to a 5U case and larger fans but not sure that's going to be enough. had been avoiding water-cooled systems based previous 'research' but GPU performance is looking like a real challenge, most likely a separate build if the workload becomes real.

If you're going 12th or 13th generation i9... or the 7950x, forget air-cooling and rackmount cases.

No way it can dissipate enough heat (especially under heavy load).  

Big case and 420mm water-cooler is absolutely necessary.  

I've been tweaking this 7950x prototype build for a couple days (fine-tuning performance vs noise).

I've got it super quiet... but even with the best 420mm water-cooler that exists, idle temps are ~50 degrees C.

Cinebench multi-core tests at 38,909.

Pretty cool to be able to run amp-sim plugins at sub 1ms total round-trip latency.

Probably won't need my portable heater in the studio this winter.  😁

The new 7950x has slightly higher TDP than the 12900ks.

It's a tweaker's machine. 

Performance is outstanding... but getting noise reined-in is complex.

Doing some test Captures with IKMM's Tonex... using 7950x based machine with RTX-3070 video card:

Using Default training, Capture process takes ~3 minutes.

Using Advanced training, Capture process takes ~20 minutes.

The UMC Interfaces are excellent low-latency performers.

During lock-down, lots of folks using them for virtual jams/rehearsals...

2 hours ago, Glenn Stanton said:

using the thunderbolt or USB 2.0 on the Antelope?

The Orion Studio Synergy Core was connected via Thunderbolt.

FWIW, No audio interface can achieve round-trip latency that low via USB-2/3.

USB-2/3 can achieve ~4ms (under ideal circumstances)

7950x early low-latency audio performance:

In short, impressive.

Studio One Pro v5.5.2 with Antelope Orion Studio Synergy Core

• Able to run Helix Native (substantial patch) at less than 1ms total round-trip latency (96k using a 24-sample ASIO buffer size)
• Able to run Tonex at ~0.5ms total round-trip latency (96k using a 16-sample ASIO buffer size)

Completely glitch-free... (tested playing for hours)

TDP for the 7950x is 170w

One thing that's currently a bit of a drag is that you can only have a single Tonex "capture" loaded (standalone or in Amplitube 5.5).

IOW, You can't have a capture of a tube-screamer... going into a capture of a JCM-800.

The current workaround is to use multiple instances of Tonex or Amplitude.

I certainly hope IK addresses this.

I haven't yet tried the capture process.

I'm a bit surprised to hear folks talking about 40-60 minutes for the training process to finish.

I've done a fair bit of capturing via the Quad Cortex.  It's training process takes a couple of minutes.

Even that can be a bit tedious... especially if you're capturing multiple mics/positions.

With an hour between "takes", you'll want to plan ahead (test recordings) to make sure you've got it right.

Just now, Kevin Perry said:

Very, very long cables? 🙂

That's the only "solution"...

Even then, low-latency performance (by comparison) is pretty lame.  😁

46 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

one thing i noticed in the reviews - heat. the 7950X without turbo was running near 95°C and recommended much larger cooling capability... intel product also running hot and thus both likely getting temperature throttled.

The 7950x will run at 95 degrees C.

Note that with proper cooling, it will not thermal-throttle under load.

I'd consider quality 360mm water-cooler a minimum.

It is a bit alarming compared to previous designs/thermals.

5950x also runs "hot"... but with proper cooling won't thermal-throttle.

The 12900ks runs well with quality 280mm water-cooler.

I'd expect the 13900ks/s to need a quality 360mm water-cooler (or better).

With 16+ core "workstation" type CPUs, air-cooling (even the Noctua D15) just isn't up to the task.

10980xe with D15 with thermal-throttle under significant load.  I've tested/verified.

There are folks on YouTube who've built Threadripper based machines using the D15.

Runs fine at idle and under light loads...  Guaranteed to thermal-throttle under significant load (defeats the whole purpose)

I've done many  prototype Threadripper builds trying to get noise under control.

With 280w TDP and active-cooled chipsets... forget it

12900ks (5.5GHz Max Turbo)

TDP = 150w

I'll get Max Turbo TDP for the 7950x (once it's fully built/optimized)

13900k Base Clock:

• Performance Cores = 3GHz
• Efficient Cores = 2.2GHz

13900k Max Turbo:

• Performance Cores = 5.8GHz
• Efficient Cores = 4.3GHz

7950x Base Clock = 4.5GHz (across all 16 cores)

7950x Max Turbo = 5.7GHz  (this is the X-Factor)

ie: If the 7950x can achieve Max Turbo across 8+ cores, that's going to be hard to beat.

I'm aware of the 13900k (been running both a 12900k and 12900ks for a good while).

13900k adds eight more efficient cores... and increases clock-speed to 5.8GHz for performance cores... and 4.3GHz for efficient cores.

Both the 13900k and 7950x have 32 processing threads.

On paper, one would expect the 13900k to leapfrog the 7950x (as 12900k leapfrogged the 5950x)... but it's speculation until we can run audio specific tests.

I would have liked to see 8 additional performance cores... instead of 8 additional efficient cores.

With the 7950x, AMD seems to have achieved significantly higher all-core clock-speed (vs the 5950x).

That kind of leaves the door open to doubt... as the 7950x has 16 full-performance cores... with max turbo of 5.7GHz.

The PC Mag article mention's price being ~$100 less than the 7950x.

That's not likely... because the current 12900ks is $700 (same cost as the 7950x).

Synthetic benchmarks show the 7950x besting the 12900ks in most scenarios.  

I'm most interested in the absolute limits of ultra low latency audio performance.

In that regard, there's not a huge difference between the 5950x, 12900k, and 12900ks.

Audio specifics to come...

AMD's Ryzen 7xxx series has been released.

• Base: 4.5Ghz
• Turbo: 5.7GHz
• 16 cores
• 32 processing threads

TDP is listed at 170w

Absolutely needs robust cooling (95 degrees C)

You can get it to run quiet... but it's definitely more complex than something like a 12700k.

Audio specific details to follow.

Want to see numbers compared to M1 Max?   😁

On 9/18/2022 at 10:43 AM, bitflipper said:

It should be a great convenience to let somebody else handle sound. Less gear to haul, fewer distractions so you can concentrate on playing. When it works, that's all true. Get a real pro behind the board who's actually listening, and you can elevate your performance to another level. Such was not the case last night.

One night, we had a sound engineer "sound-checking" guitar for 45 minutes.

Want to guess what instrument the sound engineer plays?  🎸

Annoyed us... and certainly annoyed the patrons!

Another night, we had a (last minute fill-in) "house" sound engineer who mixed the entire show while sitting at the bar (back to us the entire night).

Clearly didn't want to be there... 

Talked with the venue owner (great guy)... and that particular fella won't be mixing any more of our shows.

Yet another show, we had a young lady running sound... who spent more time texting her boyfriend than actually mixing the band.

Local festival where we had to load-in five hours early... because they shut down roads

Made for a long night

We're easy to work with... and we like the same in the sound engineer.

Someone competent... with decent gear... who's mixing (problem solving) the entire show

At this point, there's a handful of local sound engineers that we'll use.

If we can't get one of those folks, we won't book the gig.

With three band members 50+, life's too short for carp sound.  😁

The 12900k, 12900ks, and AMD's 5950x are all 16-core CPUs.

It's much more difficult to get these running extremely quiet.

It can certainly be done... but it takes a lot more effort than the 12700k.

To clarify, the 12700k does not run extremely hot.

It's easily kept cool/quiet with a quality air-cooler.

You could have a condenser mic just a couple of feet away... and not pickup any fan noise.

If you're after performance (especially low latency performance), clock-speed is still the single most important factor.

10 hours ago, jesse g said:

I love the Pultec type EQ's

Sounds like you know exactly what you're looking for...  

Klark Teknik makes the EQP-KT.  I had a pair... and they sound pretty decent.  I think the Warm EQP-WA sounds better.

Side note: Klark Teknik 76-KT (1176 clone) sounds great.  Makes everything sound huge/aggressive.

1 hour ago, jesse g said:

Even the Warm Audio EQP-WA Tube Program Equalizers,  say it isn't so Jim 😢

Pultec type EQ is a bit different.

It's a really sweet sounding EQ (especially the top-end)... but it's more for subtle enhancement.

I think the WA73 EQ (1073 clone) is pretty nice... and more "utilitarian" than Pultec type EQ.

I'm taking it you don't care for the WA73's EQ?

If you have two WA73 channel-strips, you already have what you seek.   😉

IMO, The WA73 EQ is superior to those you're contemplating.

FWIW, My DAWs are all connected to the Internet... and most run 24/7.

Never a problem...

First, make sure you have proper backup.

Next, make sure you're running Win10x64 Pro... so you can fully disable all automatic updates.

Not a fan of any 3rd-party AV application on any high-performance machine...