Teegarden

Hi, here are  things that I regularly use in order to prevent and solve problems and improve DAW performance:

• check that all drivers are up to date. For example, use a freeware tool like Dumo. If it finds outdated drivers just go to the hardware manufacturer's site directly and download it from there (in general I find that safer than to use a tool to do it for me)
• run Windows update to be up to date and to and make sure that no update has been downloaded that is still waiting for install or reboot (this has been a cause of sudden malfunctioning for me several times and is very easy to solve. However, considering your story I assume you've restarted enough and probably are up to date with Windows 10 itself)
• check that all other software is up to date. For example, use a freeware tool like SUMo. If it identifies outdated software versions, update the software from the software itself, you don't need to use the tool (or support the makers and pay for the function to let it download the software for you) 
• to make sure you've got all the latest runtimes there are two handy downloads: AllinOne Runtimes (contains the following: .NET Framework 4.8 + Updates, Java Runtime Environment 8, DirectX 9.0c Zusatzdateien, Allgemeine Runtime Dateien, Microsoft Visual C++ Runtimes (v2005 - v2019), Microsoft Visual J# 2.0 SE, Microsoft Silverlight 5, Adobe Flash Player (Opera, FireFox, Internet Explorer), Shockwave Player 12. Each can be selected or deselected for installation)
  and Visual C++ Redistributable Runtimes All-in-One (This last one might be a bit more up to date but has only the C++ updates)
• run the different windows repair tools (Windows File Protection, Component Store Corruption, System Components, Rebuild WMI Repository, Reset Windows Update, Windows Installer (MSI)): you can find them by searching the web and find explanations for each how to do it or you can see if you can get a free trial of Window 10 Manager which has a very handy repair centre tab where you can execute them with one click
• use CCleaner to get rid of junk files, clean the registry (you can select what the program will check, will deleted and what not! If you don't understand how to use it don't but it  is one of the few really reliable programs that perform this kind of actions so recommended to check it out. It also has many other functions, like startup manager where you can see which programs automatically start with Windows and prevent them from doing so if you don't really need them to start with Windows, etc.) 
• check that PC power is set to maximum: 1.    Set your computer's power for high performance - Go to: Control Panel>Power Options - Choose "High Performance" - Then click the "Change plan settings" button. Make sure both power options are set to "Never"
• check that no USB adapters can switch off power. On the Properties screen, click on Power Management tab and uncheck the option for “Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power” and click on OK.
  Disable power management for USB root hubs in the Device Manager. Open the Device Manager and expand the Universal Serial Bus controllers category. Right-click each USB Root Hub, click Properties and click the Power Management tab. Uncheck any boxes next to “Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power.”
  Check this after each big Windows update. Windows has the annoying habit to reset many options after an update...
• disable network cards, WIFI and Bluetooth if not used (Device Manager => network adapters, right-click and select disable device)
• check that you your graphics card doesn't install audio and other things than the driver itself. If you have an NVIDIA GeForce you can use NVcleanstall to get the latest driver, do a clean install and deselect everything that is not the main driver (other software, audio driver, telemetry etc.).
• check in device manager under
  1) audio inputs & outputs that only the desired audio controller is being used (e.g. Focusrite) and no other device is being used (like NVIDIA)
  2) sound video & game controllers (see 1))

On the same page as DUMo and SUMo you'll find many other tools to find problems (KC softwares). Other sites with many handy tools that might help you are Resplendence (LatencyMon, WhoCrashed, WhysoSlow etc.),  Nirsoft and SoftwareOK (I regularly use many of the tools from these websites for different purposes, also to improve my workflow with windows and other programs) 

To find out what goes wrong on windows:

• try Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Security and Maintenance\Reliability Monitor => click on the alarm signs to find out the details
• try other tools in the same Security and Maintenance directory like Windows Memory Diagnostics
• try Windows event viewer. Explanations for use are in the hyperlink. This records anything software does on your PC and might pinpoint a problem you have.
• try What's my computer doing

Hope this helps!

32 minutes ago, Steve Harder said:

7 years or so ago Cubase 7 introduced Chord Track.  The first implementation had the following features.

Can send midi out to instrument for auditioning chords.
 Chord Track located in display like Arranger Track.
Select a chord by dropdown or by playing a chord on keyboard.
Chord Assistant can suggest an intermediate chord between 2 chords, with varying complexity.
Can change voicing of chord from the info line related to Chord Track.  Root, 1st inv, 2nd inv, etc.
Display root key and scale. 
Different chord voicings.  Piano, pop, jazz, rock.
Can write midi from Chord Track to midi track.
Can be applied to existing project by selecting tracks, will detect chords, then you change chords in Chord Track and midi in associated tracks will be altered accordingly.
 Live Transform,  where you play identical notes and they are transformed to match the current chord.
 Coordination of audio track with a Melodyne like product.

I would utilize all except the audio track Melodyne integration.  I am primarily interested in orchestral sample libraries, but other users might give audio a higher priority.

I watched several vids but this gives a succinct overview.

 

Thanks for sorting this out. I didn't know this in Cubase, but it covers for a large part what I had suggested earlier as options that I would like to see in a Chord Track. 
 

1 hour ago, Colin Nicholls said:

I was meh on the whole chord track idea, but the thing that really tickled my fancy in the Cubase video posted  earlier was the placement of chords; picking a chord; using the built-in circle-of-fifths to workshop progressions.... I could have a blast with that.

I probably would never use the chord track as a real-time playback component of a project. But as a compositional tool, re-harmonizing an existing melody; refining my boring chord progressions...

Having it built-in and sending MIDI notes to an instance of Pianoteq or my string sampler du jour.... yummy. I feel like this should be implementable as a VST plugin but I suspect there is something about the inputs and outputs that would require some plumbing refactoring under the hood.

Actually displaying the chords in a track above the project (c.f. the Arranger track) I honestly don't see the point, although I respect other user's needs here.

I would mainly use it in a comparable way: to help me get out of a writers block, boost my creativity and preferably:

• provide me other than the simple, standard chord progressions that are mostly used
• suggest other than standard voicings for different instruments

Right now I use Toontrack's different options and Scaler and some other software once in a while, but having something build in would speed up things, and I would not be depending on some VSTs and have to exchange parts between VSTs. 

It might be complicated to implement a Chord Track that meets most of the wishes in this thread, but looking at the recent CbB improvements I think that the bakers are capable of surprising us more and more! 

On 11/14/2020 at 9:21 PM, pbognar said:

I could see "all things chord track" being implemented incrementally in phases, as there are many facets to be considered, with some features I perceive to be easier to implement than others.

My perception of functions, in increasing order of implementation difficulty:

• Tools to generate chords on the chord track: 
  •     chord selection/voicing tool 
  •     circle of fifths tool
  •     chord proximity tool
  •     chord suggestion tool
  •     MIDI keyboard input
  •     chord pads (with MIDI mapping for realtime triggering)
  •     existing MIDI track data
• Tool to generate scales as part of the chord track
• During editing, having option for MIDI notes to snap to the chords and/or scales on the chord track
• During playback/recording, having the option for existing MIDI tracks to follow the defined chord track and/or scales (should note changes be made destructively or in real-time? - there are pros and cons to each)
• During recording, transform in coming MIDI notes to snap to the chords and/or scales (never play a "wrong note")

(For the following audio related items, I'm assuming that Cakewalk ARA 2 support or the presence of some version of Melodyne could be parlayed)

• Enhance ARA 2 support to enable bi-directional sharing of chord track data between Cakewalk and Melodyne
• Extract MIDI from monophonic melodic audio
• During editing, having option for monophonic audio notes to snap to the chords and/or scales on the chord track
• During playback/recording, having the option for monophonic audio notes to follow the defined chord track and/or scales
• Extract MIDI from polyphonic harmonic audio
• Extract chords from polyphonic harmonic audio
• During playback/recording, having the option for polyphonic audio notes to follow the defined chord track and/or scales
   

 

Nice list! 

I would like to see implemented (partly overlapping with your list):

• you give in the key (or play the bass note) in which you want to write a song. Then you play a chord (and as option for those who prefer to select chords instead of playing) and a chord track tool gives you a random and/or selectable list with suggestions for different (and more complex) voicings, like for example these "10 Best Neo Soul Chords"
• you put in a chord progression and get other chord progressions as alternatives for that same part
• you put in a chord progression and get other chord progressions as suggestion for a next part
• the option to select the music style and have chords, progressions and timing/rhythm generated accordingly (e.g. like in Superior drummer and EZbass)
• the option to select the instrument and have chords, progressions and timing/rhythm generated accordingly (e.g. a guitar voicings are not the same as piano voicings)
• Most preferably the above implemented much more in-depth than common time with just 4 standard chords like you hear these days in most songs...(I long for the sixties and seventies with The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, The Beach Boys, Chicago, Pink Floyd, psychedelic and symphonic rock,...when music was real music😬🧐)

18 hours ago, Keni said:

Ahhh...

 

Thanks guys.

 

...with no replies I was beginning to feel as though it might be something here, but now with EA3 this appears to be fixed.

 

 

Hi. I get that it is frustrating if no one answers to you questions. There could several reasons why that happens. Maybe the questions is not clear enough, maybe it concerns something that in the eyes of others has very little priority, or maybe it is because only a limited number of members could answer the question and the have bigger, more urgent fish to fry, other questions draw the attention away, etc.... In this case, however, the problem as you state had already been fixed, which is great. Keep up the good mood and keep posting 😉

56 minutes ago, Maestro said:

I use Cakewalk on my Laptop for sketching out ideas on the go when I don't feel like carrying around my Cubase Pro dongle with me, which has several software licenses on it (Cubase Pro, WaveLab Pro, Groove Agent 5, and some VST Sound Libraries... basically a $1,500 dongle that I odn't want to have to risk breaking/losing/having stolen/etc. every time I need to leave my home studio and use my laptop).  Since I do most things in MIDI, this is trivially portable between DAWs.

Cakewalk makes perfect sense as a backup, in my case.  I'm certainly not going to use something like REAPER, given how atrocious the UI and UX is in that DAW (personal opinion).

Also, DAWs like Cubase pretty much need ASIO for optimal performance.  For just sketching out MIDI compositions, I like having a "portable DAW" with great WASAPI support on Windows (Generic Drivers are 16-Bit only for Steinberg, and ASIO4ALL is pretty janky and locks our audio drivers unconfigurably).  I don't want to have to carry around an Audio Interface, as well.

Lastly, some people don't have to luxury of choosing what they can afford.  A $560-750 DAW is completely off the table for them.  If they don't already own another supported commercial DAW, they may not even be able to utilize crossgrade options to DAWs like Cubase, Studio One, and others.

On Windows, Cakewalk is the best option in the lower end of the price bracket.  I don't even think that is  debatable, personally.  But if you can afford better, things get really competitive once you get to the  ~$100 cost tier (Studio One 5 Artist, REAPER (if you can stand to use it)).

Unless a DAW is shipping with content like Logic Pro X, I don't generally buy based on bundled content.  You can get SampleTank or  Komplete during sales for fairly decent prices and that will cover all of your bread and butter sounds.

I don't expect anyone to drop a solution that works for them and PAY for another solution.  That's illogical. If they can deal with the quirks of the software - and all software has quirks - then I don't see any issue in them staying there.  That's the intelligent thing to do.  Responsible professionals do not DAW hop.  That's a waste of money and a productivity drain.

I've stated the reasons why I use two DAWs (purely for convenience reasons).  I could easily buy Cubase Elements for like $99 and that would probably work for what I use my Laptop for, but why pay $99 when I can just use Cakewalk and export MIDI clips that work flawlessly in Cubase?

I don't miss the point.  I think I've been pretty clear that I think they are doing better under BandLab than under Gibson, where the focus was mostly on adding content bundles and marketing that.  I've stated this here, as well as on Reddit.  I've been pretty good at recommending Cakewalk on KVR, VI-Control, r/MusicProduction and r/EDMProduction - and I ALWAYS make sure to mention that the DAW gets really good active support from the developers; both bug fixes and new features.

People do not care how Cakewalk compares to Cubase 5.  They do care how it compares to REAPER 6 or whatever else they're considering.

I think for most producers and singer/songwriters, this DAW is totally fine.  The only people who may find lacks are Audio Engineers and more serious Composers - the former more than the latter, IME/O.

No.  If you actually read the threads - which I do because I am a customer of theirs... 50% of them, as expected, are exaggerations and 25% of them are people who simply don't know how to operate the application.  This applies to other software as well.  I've read the Pro Tools forums 😛 

Most end users couldn't give a rat's *** about BandLab.  They're looking at it from their point of view.  I think you either have it backwards, or you're trying to flip this to create a point where none exists.  What you're referring to is completely non-factor.

But it doesn't matter, because it's a $0 product, which is what my point is.  There is only something to gain by trying it, and this is what I tell people on Reddit.

Cakewalk should be the default first try for anyone on the Windows Platform who is looking for a DAW - much like GarageBand/Logic Pro X is on the macOS Platform.  I don't think anyone should pay for anything without first trying it.  You start with Cakewalk, and you move off of it if it doesn't meet your needs/requirements, you have to use a different DAW for frequent collaboration with other artists, or you are deep in a market where it isn't as strong as other DAW which may come with fairly low price tags, anyways.

Otherwise, why not.  Get it and sit on it.

Let's stop wasting time and let's make music, each on his preferred DAW 😘

9 hours ago, Craig Reeves said:

And no, clip automation doesn't suffice. Because while clip automation is fine for adjusting the gain on a single clip, it fails when trying to adjust the gain on multiple clips at once which is very often the case when having to de-ess a stack of multiple vocals by hand. 

I can't think of a single other major DAW that is missing this feature so I would imagine it would be pretty easy to implement. 

And no, adding a plugin to each clip doesn't work because again, it's a stack of 5 vocals I'm trying to de-ess manually.

And no, Process > Apply Effect > Gain doesn't work either because that is destructive and not adjustable.

I'm literally going to have to take this vocal stack to Pro Tools because Cakewalk is completely unable to do this.

Apart from the possibilities that CbB provides for your problem (as indicated in the post here above which to me seem more quite good and fast), maybe you should try out the new Celemony Melodyne 5, probably the best de-esser around and a huge time saver for professionals😉

11 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Excellent and informative review.

Been working on mine, may end up pushing that 10,000 character limit. 😄

Here's the link to the CbB listing

Well, I think your review goes way beyond mine! Very informative👍

On 10/18/2020 at 11:20 AM, Starship Krupa said:

I found out when trying to vote for Cakewalk by BandLab as my favorite audio software of 2020 at KVR that KVR doesn't have an entry for for Cakewalk. Instead it lists "SONAR Platinum by BandLab" at a price of $499. It looks like the site was updated after the announcement almost 3 years ago and not since.

In order to update the information and allow CbB users to do things like vote in the polls, I'd like to see the information updated. In order to do it, someone who represents BandLab must claim the account and then enter the correct product information. BandLab might also consider it desirable to enter the other BandLab DAW's as well. It's free advertising and promotion.

Developer application

Nice work! Now that it has been done maybe you could change the title to "Cakewalk and BandLab at KVR - Please vote!"

I just wrote a review🧐. Curious to see how the KVR listing will develop... 

52 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Bingo! Like I said, your interface/Asio drivers need to be Sync'd with that of your hardware. Set those back to 256KB and just fiddle with your ASIO buffer size under "DRIVER SETTINGS" 

I'm confused: so the advice from the CbB release is wrong (that leads to 512 KB Playback and 256 KB Record with interface at 256 KB (only one setting possible for both Playback and Record so it can only be in sync with one at a time)?

Next to that I thought that for playback during mixing (especially with extensive projects) it's even better to use 1024 KB or higher driver buffer size (meaning that after tracking you always need to increase driver buffer sizes for mixing and vice versa) 

On 10/18/2020 at 6:52 PM, Craig Anderton said:

The "nuclear option" is a Thunderbolt interface or a PCIe card interface (e.g., RME, ESI), either of which can have lower latency than USB.  For USB, MOTU claims 2.5 ms round-trip latency for their M2 interface at 96 kHz with 32 sample buffers.

My 10 year old RME PCIe at 96kHz, 24bit and 64 sample buffers gives me an effective latency of 0.7 ms and roundtrip of 3.4 ms
I always wondered which one is the one you need to look at: roundtrip or effective latency? (I thought the latter when you're recording e.g. a vocal)

However, I never felt that CbB was very stable at those settings, to be on the safe side I use 256 sample buffers (effective latency of 2.7 ms and roundtrip of 7.4 ms .

18 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

If the buffer size is too low, you may encounter errors during playback or may hear clicks and pops. If the buffer size is set too high while recording, there will be quite a bit of latency which can be irritable.

It's hard to say with minimum specs given. There can be numerous reasons - out-dated windows drivers is one of them. 

Cakewalk sets both Playback and Record I/O to 256KB by default, so set it back to 256KB. There might be a clock sync issue with your system? Try to reset your configurations in preferences and update your drivers. 

Your ASIO drivers needs to be sync with that of your hardware - that's why it is important to update to the latest Asio drivers, I think it's v4.65 for focusrite -- nowhere near the studio right now to check. 

 

Thanks for all the feedback! 
I found out that I've changed the setting myself long time ago, when I started to get pops and cracks. It was advised by CbB in the Version 2018-09 release notes:

"To optimize playback and reduce the potential for dropouts or audio glitches, we recommend a Playback I/O Buffer Size value of about 512 (KB) if you are experiencing any performance problems. You can change the Playback I/O Buffer Size value in Edit > Preferences > Audio - Sync and Caching."

(So you think that both Playback and Record I/O to 256KB is better?)

Later on I found out that it was "thread scheduling" value 3 that gave problems. This however seems to have been fixed in the recent CbB releases.
Using a simple project (some EQ, compression and two normal  reverbs + one convolution) and a few audio tracks + many inactive tracks and inactive busses with preloaded FX from my template) I measured it today against against "thread scheduling" 2 which now shows the following during playing:

thread scheduling 3: Audio Processing 6%    (Max. 16%, jumps to 21% during pause and jumps to 16 again during play???), 35% (Max. 55%, jumps to 103 during a pause???), Engine Load, 0 Late Buffers
thread scheduling 2: Audio Processing 7,5% (Max. 17%, jumps to 22% during  pause) Audio Processing, 38% (Max. 54% jumps to 110 during pause), Engine Load, 0 Late Buffers
(numbers are rounded averages since they change continuously). 

So at first sight some small performance improvements. Strangely enough when I stop the project the Max. values jump up and when hitting play again the Max. values drop significantly?
 
I've got the latest RME driver for my AOI PCIe card, so that shouldn't be a problem. I make sure to always have the latest driver and software updates for anything on the PC (has become a bit of an obsession🥴).
Things go reasonably well right now. I expected my 16-core Threadripper 1950X with 32 GB RAM and fast PCIe SSD drives to run smooth all the time, even under heavy workload. Still, if you don't pay attention to the many different Windows settings (sleep timers, GPU audio, power settings, wireless connections etc.) and other background processes, such a system can be disappointing. After tweaking it at many sides it's finally becoming nice to work with. Because of the many uncertainties introduced by other software I now use a program (ProcessKO) to disable any background process that is not needed for the system when I run CbB. This also seems to help a bit. 

System is now running 96kHz, 24bit + 64bit double precision engine (I wonder how useful the latter is and if it uses more resources) with latency of 2,7 ms at 256 (both Playback and Record I/O, according to your advice) samples buffer size.

What I don't get is why its still possible to get pops and cracks (which happens rarely at the moment, touch wood...) when you see on the performance monitor that Audio processing and Engine Load are way below 100%? I've never seen one of the cores max out during an audio glitch.
And why in some cases late buffers seem to be building up when a song project has been opened but is not playing???

3 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

No - That's not what I said. Don't enable it - think there's misunderstanding some where. 

Don't tick any of those boxes. Set your "ASIO driver" under "Driver Settings" to the same value as your Playback and Record I/O buffer size. Dont enable read or write Caching. 

 

 

My bad. I wrongly assumed that in order to change the buffer size you needed to enable caching. Clearly you can change the buffer size without that.

I noticed that playback was double (512 KB) the size of the record (256 KB) buffer size. Is that standard for CbB? Do you know why making them both the same size has a positive effect on latency or is it just by trial and error that you found it to be better? 

4 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

I find that syncing my Playback I/O buffer size and Record I/O buffer size with my Interface ASIO driver, eliminates latency for me - with all FX enabled. 

To do this: Go to preferences /hit "P" on the keyboard. Under the Sync and Caching TAB you will find the default size of 256KB  by Cakewalk. Set your ASIO driver accordingly and find the setting that works best for you.

For me the default setting works perfectly. Set my Focusrite Scarlett Asio Driver the same - that gives me 4.3msec of 256samples with Effective latency at 48khz/Stereo at 4.3msec. 

I checked this to see if it could be another tweak for my system. The CbB reference guide says:

"Enable Read Caching and Enable Write Caching. Choosing either of these options lets Cakewalk use the Windows disk cache while reading or writing audio data. Cakewalk will usually perform best with all caching disabled, which is the default setting. If your computer has an older IDE disk controller, or a disk controller that does not use DMA transfers, enabling caching may improve Cakewalk’s audio performance."

It seems to me that it is better to not use this option on a relatively new PC.

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

Free things usually garner few complaints, because the user didn't have to invest anything to acquire and use it.  This is also true re: cheaper things vs more expensive things.

1.  Who on this forum insinuated that this was the case?  No one, so I don't see the point of this, and I don't see how this can even factor into any "disagreement."  The point is that bugs in Free software are a lot more "acceptable" than bugs in a piece of software that cost you $560 -750.  I don't think anyone can disagree with that, because we see this play out all the time.

2.  Yes, but if it malfunctions, you lose less money.  So bugs bother you less.  I didn't say bugs are always ignorable just because it's free - particularly when you are using a free product, but are more than capable of paying for a potentially better paid product.  I simply stated that people are less likely to view issues as showstoppers when they pay little to nothing to obtain it, because they have little to no skin in the game - and very little to lose if the software doesn't work properly.   SONAR oldies are bringing their commercial mentality to a free product.  That is not how the hobbyists and prosumers are thinking when they try Cakewalk by BandLab.  You are acting like you paid for it, simply because you paid for a previous version 😉

3.    Issues with software are not worth discussing as this can be due to hardware, drivers, and other components installed on the system. 

4.  Cubase 10.5 has no issues on my machine.  I don't get any crashes, but you pointing out the complaints on that forum - many of them exaggerations - is proving the exact point I posited in my earlier thread!  Compare to the Cakewalk forums (both old and new).  Paid users on the Cubase Forums are much more apt to complain, largely due to the disparity of [monetary] investment in Cubase as a production platform. 

5.  There is no ROI on Free because there is no  investment needed.  We're referring to monetary investment.  Money talks...  This is why people like free <anything>.

There is already a fairly extensive comparison between DAWs available on the internet, by Admiral BumbleBee.  Unfortunately, Cakewalk was not reviewed favorably there, so very few people here will prefer to link to it 😉 

In general I agree with you, however, in the case of CbB it is more nuanced. Many users have paid a lot for Sonar, which was rated among the very best of professional DAWs in several reviews (and of course less good in some other reviews, like is the case for other DAWs. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"😉), because it was a DAW answering to their high requirements. Since becoming CbB the DAW has quickly gained more options, has gotten a better workflow and has become more stable. Many of the old Sonar users that fit the profile of your description of current customers of high priced DAWs like Cubase (which are supposed to have higher requirements because they paid a lot for it), keep using CbB. I don't think that their requirements have become less just because the once expensive DAW has become free. Fact that they keep using it says a lot about the professional level  of CbB. 

Since everyone can report bugs, complain on the forum or ask questions about anything I don't see why there would be less complaints because CbB is free. With any bug or problem it just makes sense to report it or ask how to get around it on the forum (asking is also free and the high quality of the CbB forum regularly attracts users of other DAWs for specific questions because it is well regarded compared to forums of expensive DAWs). So why would there be less complaints because it is free...

1. You gave me the impression ("Free things usually garner few complaints", etc.) that in expensive DAWs more bugs are ironed out. My bad if misinterpreted your comments. The bugs in free are more acceptable in general, but not if you paid a lot for the DAW like Sonar users that continue to use CbB. And don't forget that there are several professional musicians and studios here on the forum. They can't afford to keep using a DAW that hampers their production...
   There are several users on the forum that use CbB next to other expensive DAWs. They prefer some things in one DAW and other things in another. I guess if you have Pro Tools, Cubase and are using CbB regularly or (as I understood form several most of the time) next to it it must be of comparable quality
     
2. See here above. Most Sonar oldies would leave if CbB if it were not up to the task. And people spend many hours to produce a piece of music that they are emotionally attached to. Nothing is more discouraging and frustrating than to see it fall apart because of time consuming bugs along the way or a crash just before finishing the master. Because of that I think that especially with something like a DAW most users will not stick to it if it does not operate well, even when being free
    
3. You mis the point: I merely pointed out that since CbB is free, the DAW is even much better and better maintained and upgraded than it was at the time of being an expensive DAW, that paying a lot for a DAW can still lead to failure and that (at least in my case) this free DAW is much better than the paid ones in the past. And yes, I'm very critical regarding workflow, options, bugs etc. just like I was when I paid top dollar. If the DAW doesn't fits my needs, I'll leave it for another (paid or free, I don't care as long as it can do what I need it to do)
    
4. Or maybe they complain more, because they have more problems. Anyway, it is impossible to compare that. I think that the tone on the Sonar and CbB forum is was and is much more positive than usually found on other forums. People treat each other with respect and are very helpful. That might also explain the difference (and language) in forum topics🧐
    
5. You miss the point that Bandlab invests a lot continuously. Talking about ROI I assume a corporate point of view, not consumer.

I assume you refer to this review Admiral Bumblebee Cakewalk review which is two years old...He doesn't include CbB in his current DAW comparison charts. Many of the issues have been improved since. Anyway, a good list of topics for the bakers to check what still could be improved from that list!

Thanks, by the way, for that website! I like the in depth articles😃 

4 hours ago, Maestro said:

One thing I see [when I read the old Cakewalk forums] is lots of fans saying it does "tons of things" better, but almost none of them actually saying what it does better.  Someone who searches "best DAW for Windows" kind of wants to see a bit more usable information.

It's also useful to know what type of music you produce.  If you're Live Tracking Bands or Recording Guitars and Vocals, then Live is simply not the optimal platform for that - and neither is FL Studio, or Bitwig.  Those DAWs have a specific bias for the production of certain genres of music. 

Good idea to have a (living, regularly updated) comparison table somewhere with the features that each DAW has. I really would appreciate to have a clear overview to see what each DAW can or cannot do and which one is better for what purpose.

4 hours ago, Maestro said:

If you pay $80 for a DAW, then a bad UI is more acceptable than if you pay $560 for a DAW.  People who use cheap DAWs are also likely to make excuses for the developers more than people who use more expensive DAWs.  This is why the Cubase user base is generally a lot more critical of Steinberg than the Cakewalk or MixCraft userbase... or the ACID Pro user base, to give another example.  People using Cakewalk are going to be okay with the feature disparities vs. other DAWs, because Cakewalk costs nothing.  If they were asked to pay $550-599 for it, they'd quickly start asking "why so much, it's missing <100 features> that <5 other DAWs> have."  Perspective is everything 😛 

DAWs like Cubase are heavy weight DAWs used by heavy weights of the industry.  Those people tend to be a lot more exacting WRT their requirements, and they tend to be a lot more vocal about their complaints.  Their patience is shorter, because the DAW costs $560 and has paid yearly upgrades.  Additionally, their livelihoods often depend ono that piece of software.  They want return on investment.

There is no such thing as return on investment for a free product.  There is no risk in trying it, or using it (except maybe it disappearing with no way to continue using it - since online validation is apparently A.O.K., even for "Free" software).

 I completely disagree:

1. I've never seen nor heard of a complex piece of consumer software (like DAWs, operating systems, video editing etc.) that was completely bug free and did not suffer from flaws that scared some users away
    
2. Also if you pay less for a DAW you still expect it to work as expected
    
3. In the past I paid the highest price for Cubase that they ever have put it on the market for to find out that after one traumatic year it never worked well on my pc, so I left for Sonar (and now CbB), which up till today has continuously been improved and become more stable, much to my satisfaction in a way that I've never experienced with Cubase. It seems that CbB is getting more stable and getting more features at a faster pace than in the days that it was priced comparable to the other top DAWs...
    
4. Suggestion: have a look at the Cubase forum to see what what kind of problems they have with this  i.m.o. currently (compared to CbB) overpriced DAW. Some topics form the first page from different users: "Cubase still crash and randomly appear message errors", "Automation Frustration", "Cubase 10.5.20 crashes randomly on Mac", "Cubase crashes every day!", "HANGS, FREEZES, DISAPPEARS, ETC,..."
   
   Not saying that Cubase is bad, for many people it does work well and just like with CbB many problems can be solved by pointing users to the right settings, or the problem is related to the operating system or another piece of software/hardware. However, it is not because it is expensive that it is more stable or better in any other sense. And I expect the same stability and functions from CbB as from Cubase. If CbB stops working well I change to another DAW, expensive or free. The thing that matters most for me is usability! 
    
5. ROI on a free product is a standard business model. Free products are often used as marketing tools. Look at websites with adds where you can download something a free tool.  The adds pay for the tool. YouTube, where people earn money just by having viewers clicking their content and/or referring to another product, and so on. In the case of CbB it is a way to attract users to Bandlab (as far as I understood)

Nice first two suggestions.

Regarding the stability: 
For me at least CbB has be come much more stable with better workflow and the bakers do nothing but continuously improving stability and fixing bugs each day (that doesn't mean that it is bugfree, of course). I've got the impression that many others feel the same when reading forum topics.

Would you mind sharing which problems you have encountered? In many cases with some forum help problems can be solved!

Often it is not the DAW but a pc setting or a plugin or another piece of software/hardware/driver that leads to problems. In case it is the DAW itself the bakers usually respond well and manage to fix the bug if you provide enough information (hardware and software versions incl. drivers, crash dump, observed actions that lead to the problem, etc.)

Just a few years ago when Cakewalk by Bandlab  was still Sonar the reviews were raving, see Sonar reviews, for example. At that time the cost for the DAW were comparable to the other top paid DAWs like Cubase and Pro Tools. CbB is leaning on decades of professional development. There was a delay in development when Gibson ended Sonar, before CbB was well established, but ever since the development has been going really well, ironing out old bugs and introducing new highly desired features. 

Any DAW has its own advantages as well as bugs, so having a particular bug in CbB does not mean that switching to another DAW will relieve you from all bugs, just look at other forums and you'll see many bug or other problems all over the place. It is just very hard to make a program that is compatible with a virtually unlimited number of hardware and software configurations and on top of that comforts everyone's personal workflow and options wishes. 

I would say today it is one of the best DAWs compared to all other DAWS (both paid and free).  This year CbB was again ranked in the top ten best DAWS with as main downside just that it is Windows only... In the mean time many other new features and bug fixes have been introduced, so the future just looks good!

When you notice the feedback from the bakers, who in general listen and respond quite well on this forum (as well as the often excellent feedback from users when you have a problem, which has helped me out many times) it just seems like CbB is thriving.

Regarding professionality and options you can't go wrong with CbB. You get at top priced DAW for free (why that is possible is covered elsewhere on this forum) 

However, like Lord Tim said the best DAW is the one that works best for you.
 

48 minutes ago, jghford@gmail.com said:

Latest Version 2020.08.

Just downloaded and updated my version of Cakewalk to 2020.08. Disaster! GUI loads OK as usual. I load my project and the  hourglass icon stays on screen and whole program freezes.

I have no clue what could be the cause. However, once in a while my pc shows this kind of behaviour and in those cases so far it appeared to be a new Windows update that was waiting for a restart. Once restarted the problem is gone. 
Maybe this helps.
BTW did you check that all your drivers are the latest versions? 
More info about the hardware and software and the kind of project might also give more clues

On 8/17/2020 at 12:08 AM, Oscar Garzon said:

I have a geforce gtx 960 and i was wondering if it could help render audio in cakewalk or help improve the program in some way.

If your graphics card with the latest Geforce driver supports the WDDM graphics driver and you have installed the latest Windows 2004 update you can switch on "Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling". It is turned off by default, so in order to make use of it you need to switch it on.

This feature is introduced in order for Windows to be able to offload most of GPU scheduling to a dedicated GPU-based scheduling processor.

It can be enabled on the Advanced Graphics Settings page. The settings page can be accessed via Settings -> System -> Display -> Graphics settings. 

I just installed both latest updates and my already fast system feels much snappier😃. The way I understand how it works it must free some CPU capacity which now can be used for other tasks like your DAW.

Hillmy, you're right, let's try to help more😉

On 8/17/2020 at 10:56 AM, Oscar Garzon said:

i changed my sampling rate in driver settings to 44100 but i still get the same problem

Oscar,

I would not expect too much from your system as far as can be concluded from the information you provided so far. However, its a nice challenge to see if it can be improved. 

Could you give a  list of your hardware and software. It would help figuring out where the main bottlenecks are and what can or cannot be done about it.

Do you have any budget? (I understood 100 USD is too much) On Ebay you can find FOCUSRITE Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interfaces in the 40-50 USD range. These are quite good. There are plenty of other options and second hand sites as well.

On a slow PC all tuning might make a difference. So I advice you to also have a look at this thread with  pc optimisation software links. 

Some handy free tools to check your PC harware and software status:

• HWinfo, gives full details on your hardware
• DUMo, gives a list of installed hardware device drivers, and of the available updates. Don't use this program to update, just use the info to find the driver on the manufacturer's site if it needs to be updated
• SUMo, gives a list of installed software incl. version and what updates are available
• You might find some other free utilities on the same KC Softwares website that could be usefull, like HDD/SSD status, RAM status + upgrade capability indication, based on motherboard empty slots, etc.
• ProcessKO, I use it to make a list of background processes like the ones from adobe, printer etc. Whenever I want maximum power I can quickly stop these processes from running in the background. You can also easily restart them with it. 

The question was if a geforce gtx 960 could help render audio in cakewalk or help improve the program in some way. 
Your answer was: "You want a "graphics" card to render audio? o_O"

I tried to point out that the question of OP was a logical and very valid one while your reaction seemed to suggest the opposite.

Did you even read the hyperlinks in my post? Here's another one: Why The Future Of Real-time Audio Processing Could Be In Graphics Cards  (article on Pro Tools Expert).

To get back to your last reaction: if you look at the forum you'll find plenty of questions about performance issues, latency and how to get a project run smoother, so apparently that "very capable sound card" is not enough in many cases (and yes, many other factors like CPU, settings in CbB like thread scheduling etc. could be the culprit, but my own machine which is fast with RME PCIe sound card (low latency), 32 GB RAM and fast SSDs also regularly runs into problems with bigger CbB projects with many FX plugins).

Great if your sound card is all you need, but others have different projects and needs. The point is that it doesn't matter that a sound card is made to process sound. Of course it is. The point is that performance is depending on several different hardware components and that in this example a GPU might eventually help projects run better.

Ergo, the sound card alone is not always sufficient and any help from other hardware is welcome if that would make projects run smoother. Unfortunately the CUDA development is not there yet, but there are several indications that in the (near?) future GPUs might play a role in audio processing. I would love to have it and would make good use of it.

1 hour ago, Hillmy said:

NOW I know why you say graphics card! Looking at the video, it all makes sense now! The audio portion of graphics cards (including Nvidia's) is primarily used for HDMI output and not as a main audio driver. That would be the job of your sound card and it's drivers. So since it shows LG TV that you have as your driver settings, are you running Cakewalk on a Laptop or a Desktop? Are you using your TV as a monitor? can you choose anything besides LG TV in the audio driver settings of Cakewalk? is the sound coming out of your TV? What are you using exactly? Seems like you have a very unusual set-up. To me that looks like the main problem. Not a graphics card problem and not a sound card problem either, because it doesn't even seem like you are using your sound card to begin with. And I am sure if you are using windows that your PC does have a sound card (if it is a normal PC that is).

It is certainly possible to render audio on a GPU. Cuda cores are being used for many different computing tasks and there were already a long time ago initiatives to use GPUs to offset the CPU:
using-your-graphics-card-process-plug-ins (published 2008)

Have You Heard What a GPU Can Do? - A Revolution in Audio Processing (published 2009)

GPU DSP — When You Can’t Have Enough Cores (published 2019)

I'm surprised no one referred to this, maybe its not so well known. Still hope that (especially now that PCIe busses and other communication parts are getting much faster) in the near future it will be possible to use CUDA cores in CbB.

2 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

You can do the Project | Insert method, or turn on Ripple Edit All and drag everything over by a measure. Both equally valid.

Isn't this a nice case where you could use Arranger track? Selected the whole song, allocate it to one section and move that section one measure?

21 hours ago, Nick Rosaci said:

So I'm trying to do something exactly like this:
 

 

I'd love to use this technique to do a decent performance of the Bach Cello Suites and still be able to play some of the extremely difficult/impossible phrases by having them programmed in.  Note how he just moves one finger up and down and it moves on to the next note.  So the notes are pre-programmed, and he's just dictating the rhythm, phrasing, breath, volume, articulation, etc.

What tool could be used for this?

 

If you play keyboard (or guitar probably also, maybe to a bit lesser extent), you might be able to do whatever you want with the TEControl MIDI Breath and Bite Controller 2.

I think it comes the closest to what you can achieve regarding realistic virtual instruments. All imaginable controllers van be allocated the way you want (as far as I understood) and it sounds highly expressive. Ramiro Gómez Massetti has a YouTube channel with many examples on how to use this controller to create string ensembles for example. There are also other YouTube channels with videos where this controller is linked to an electrical guitar to play sax or trumpet for instance. Probably best results with virtual instruments like the ones from Audio Modeling or Sample Modeling.
 

3 hours ago, sreams said:

Ah... so you do mean the fader throw length, not the size of the faders themselves. I'd be a fan of allowing for user adjustable fader throw. I just wouldn't change it for myself, and I'd hope that the more screen-space efficient current size would remain as an option.

I'm also a fan of adding sidechain routing to the plugin window.

Good idea, it could be an option where you can make them taller or shorter, just like you can make them narrow and wide. Maybe another option is that you could (user selectable) have the fader pop out when selected or when hovering over the meter. What I really like is the lay-out of Sonalksis FreeG (a free plugin!) which I started using for mastering/gain staging thanks to one of the excellent tutorials CbB Gain Staging of Creative Sauce.
I would love to see a similar functional fader build in into CbB.