Steve Moddelmog

5 hours ago, Sven said:

I don't think the shortcut exists but I have to ask.  I like to work quickly using as many keyboard shortcuts as possible without touching the mouse.  I use Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDn constantly to move back and forth.  

Is there any keyboard shortcut available to move 'just a tad' either direction?   The shortcuts I mentioned above move too far for many of the situations I'm in.  I'll usually use one of them then use play and Ctrl-Spacebar to get to where I really want to work.

Thanks.

 

I assume you mean shortcuts for the "nudge" function.  They are on the numeric keypad.

3 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

I'm not sure what you mean by presets coming up as invalid. Plugin presets are not stored in the project file.

Noel, can you explain what you mean by that?  If I load an existing project, CbB knows what preset I used for each plugin and properly loads those presets.  And if I have modified them in some way without saving over the existing preset or saving as a new preset but then saved the project, I'm pretty sure those modifications get loaded with the project too. So I'm sure I'm just not understanding what you're saying.  Thanks.

On 3/9/2021 at 12:05 PM, pwalpwal said:

yep, it means you use it for a profession, but it ("professional" or "pro") has been hijacked by marketing, sigh...

So true. Not on the subject of making music, but years ago Gillette or Schick or some razor-maker attached the term "Pro-shave" to one of their products.  I remember thinking, wow, I'm pretty good at shaving - maybe I could go pro.

I used to have 32-bit SPLAT installed alongside 64-bit Cakewalk by Bandlab. That way I could easily run old projects and not have an these headaches. Now I can't figure out how I did it - I think the installation sequence must be very important, because if I install 32-bit Sonar with Cakewalk already installed, it destroys the plugin database. But I'm certain I used to do it.  Can anyone point me in the right direction for doing it? Maybe uninstall both, then install 32-bit Sonar first, run it so 32-bit and dxi plugins are found, and then install Cakewalk?

Seems not worth it to pursue.  I do have P5.  I could install and then wrap "Dimension" with dxishell, which I've had pretty good luck with converting other dxi's to VSTs.  But it wouldn't recognize the wrapped dxi as the dxi that was used in my 16 year old project, so I still wouldn't know the preset that was used (or the settings).  If I knew those, I'd just load them in Dimension Pro.  ("Dimension" doesn't happen to be one of the few dxi's that work in 64-bit Cakewalk by Bandlab (such as PSYN II and Pentagon), does it?)

As I said above, I do wish there was a way to get Cakewalk to cough up the info on presets and modified settings used for each plugin in a project.  The info has to be there or it wouldn't know what to do when you load  any project.  Would be very useful with many plugins such as Native Instruments, Wusik, etc., that get new "identities" when they are upgraded.  Would save me from having to have, for example, seven versions of Kontakt loaded (the same project with "Dimension (NOT Pro)" also uses Kontakt 3, which was a little tricky to authorize since it expects NI's Service Center, not Native Access, to authorize it).  I've wised up recently and, unless I forget, I add the preset name to the Track notes so I know exactly what's what when opening  in future installations.

Of course, even if I can get it working with dxishell, I won't know what settings or preset I used.  I know that information has to be embedded somewhere in the .cwp file - I wish someone would develop a tool to extract it.  Would be very helpful for working on old projects that use old versions of Native Instruments plugins, for example, where every update is actually a new program and you'd like to be able to find  what the preset was in, say , Absynth 2 that you originally used in the project and load it in Absynth5, without having to install Absynth 2 just to get to the info.

45 minutes ago, scook said:

IIRC, Dimension was a P5 plug-in.

This means it is likely 32bit DX format and will require 32bit SONAR to load the project if you can find the P5 install disks for the synth.

Ah, I do still have my P5 CD.  And I've had pretty good luck wrapping dxi's with dxishell.  I'll give it a try.  Thanks!

Oh, ps to that.  I recall buying Dimension Pro and then it later came included with Sonar starting with Sonar 8, and I had issues with then having Dimension Pro installed with two different serial numbers.  But I don't think that could be my problem here - pretty sure both of those versions of Dimension Pro showed up in projects as "Dimension Pro," not "Dimension."

I'm trying to open an old project from 2007.  Two plugins weren't found: Kontakt 3, which I have somewhere and can install, and "Dimension."  The missing plugin is not identified as Dimension Pro (which is installed and should be available).  I noticed in a spreadsheet I have of what plugins came with what versions of Sonar that there was a Dimension LE that came with Sonar 7.  I know the missing plugin is come variant of Dimension Pro - it actually loads the same little graphic in synth rack  view that loads with Dimension Pro.  Does anyone know what version of Dimension ?? would just be identified as "Dimension" by Cakewalk / Sonar?

4 minutes ago, bitflipper said:

I let Windows turn off my screen, too. A habit going back to burn-in concerns on CRTs. I do have the timer set to a long time (2 hours, I think) to avoid the annoyance of having it go black when I'm just looking at it. So no, I don't think blanking the display would have any effect. What you're seeing is overhead from changing some setting, e.g. a disk drive spinning back up after a power-saving shutdown (probably not your problem, given it's an SSD). 

Thinking about it further, it seems the DPC has to be in response to the BIOS doing something and alerting Windows of the change. One of those would be throttling the CPU clock speed to save power (aka SpeedStep). This feature can be turned off in the BIOS. Note that your BIOS may call it something else, e.g. "Cool 'n Quiet" (AMD).

Although Cakewalk does recommend disabling SpeedStep, it should normally not be a problem and it isn't the kind of thing that happens continuously. It normally wouldn't be triggering many interrupts like you're seeing - unless your computer has a heat problem. It might be worthwhile to check how hot your CPU is running. There are several free tools for taking your CPU's temperature. I use CoreTemp. What's a good temperature? A rule of thumb is < 80 degrees C, but some CPUs routinely run hotter. Some are fine running up 100 degrees C.

I don't see anything in the BIOS settings that looks like it has to do with CPU throttling - I can pretty much tell what everything is for and there's just nothing like that.  Maybe having no setting is HP's intention for this model.

Thanks for the link to CoreTemp.  I downloaded it, and the "hottest" Core (Core 0) is currently 69 degrees C.

And here is Bing's answer:

It seems that acpi.sys is a common source of DPC latency for many users who want to use their laptops for music production. According to some online forums123, there are a few possible solutions you can try:

Perform a clean install of Windows 10 and update all your drivers and BIOS2.

Set your power mode to best performance and adjust the minimum processor state to 100% in the advanced power settings24.

Turn off C-states, Intel TurboBoost, Intel Speedstep, and Intel Speed Shift in the BIOS2.

Disable or uninstall any unnecessary devices or programs that may cause interference, such as ACPI-Compliant Control Method battery, Intel Dynamic Platform & Thermal Framework, Bonjour, MaxxAudioPro, OneDrive, etc2.

Use a third-party program like Process Lasso or Process Hacker to set the process affinity or suspend the ACPI.sys threads25.

Switch to a different audio interface with better drivers, such as Scarlett 18i83.

I hope this helps you with your problem.

I asked Google Bard for help with this issue.  Here's what I got - unfortunately nothing helpful:

How can I keep acpi.sys from causing latency in music production software?

View other drafts

The acpi.sys driver is responsible for managing power consumption on your computer. It can sometimes cause latency in music production software, which can lead to clicks, pops, and other audio problems. There are a few things you can do to keep acpi.sys from causing latency:

Update your drivers. Make sure you have the latest drivers for your computer's motherboard, processor, and graphics card. You can usually find these drivers on the manufacturer's website.

Disable power management. Go to Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Device Manager. Expand the "System Devices" category and right-click on "ACPI-Compliant System". Select "Properties" and go to the "Power Management" tab. Uncheck the box next to "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power".

Use a dedicated audio interface. A dedicated audio interface will give you much lower latency than your computer's built-in sound card. This will help to prevent acpi.sys from causing problems with your music production software.

If you are still experiencing latency problems after trying these steps, you may need to contact your computer manufacturer or audio interface manufacturer for further assistance.

Here are some additional tips for reducing DPC latency:

Use a high-quality power supply. A poor-quality power supply can cause all sorts of problems with your computer's performance, including DPC latency.

Keep your computer cool. Heat can also cause DPC latency, so make sure your computer has good ventilation.

Close unnecessary programs. Any programs that are running in the background can contribute to DPC latency. Close any programs that you are not using.

Defragment your hard drive. A fragmented hard drive can also cause DPC latency. Defragment your hard drive regularly to improve performance.

By following these tips, you can help to reduce DPC latency and improve the performance of your music production software.

16 hours ago, bitflipper said:

I've seen complaints about ACPI.sys having excessive DPC latency before. Usually on laptops, usually having something to do with power settings. You might try some different power schemes, just to see if it makes any difference. Make sure that sleep mode is completely disabled. I've always used the "High Performance" power preset, which, iirc, disables sleep mode. Also go into the Advanced power settings, expand the USB Settings category and verify that USB suspend is disabled (assuming your interface is connected via USB).

ACPI does more than just power management, though. (Well, technically ACPI doesn't do anything on its own, as it's a driver that interfaces with your BIOS. The idea is that ACPI.sys lets you change certain BIOS settings directly from Windows that in the old days would have required booting into the BIOS.) It might be worth booting into the BIOS and poking around in there. It may allow you to disable ACPI.

Power settings are all at their most "generous."  USB not allowed to turn off to save power. I have never used sleep, and the first thing I do when i get a new computer is disable hibernate.  At your suggestion, I looked at BIOS settings but I didn't see anything there that seemed to relate to power settings, other than an optimize battery setting which I didn't think would make a difference but I disabled it anyway (it was enabled).  I do let Windows turn my screen off after X minutes of inactivity.  Wouldn't think that would be problematic, would it?

25 minutes ago, 57Gregy said:

Is it a Dell?
 

No, it's an HP.

7 hours ago, bitflipper said:

Given your specs, two VSTis should be well within your system's capabilities. I routinely work projects with literally dozens of VIs, and my system is less powerful than yours.

Your issue may be external to the DAW. While it's processing audio data, the CPU is also busy with background tasks that compete for attention. If some other process is excessively chewing through CPU cycles it'll be almost pointless to optimize the DAW. One category  of potential CPU hogs is overhead from interrupts. A tool exists for getting DPC stats (Deferred Procedure Calls, meaning the software that runs in response to an interrupt), which can help pinpoint the culprit(s).  Hop over to respendence.com and download their free LatencyMon tool. 

I downloaded the tool and have run it numerous times.  Every time, all looks fine at first, but it eventually (from 30 seconds to 2 minutes in) gives me the message about "having trouble handling real-time audio" and simultaneously (I think) flags ACPI.sys as having the highest reported ISR and DPC routine execution times.  It makes suggestions about Power Management (I'm really about 100% sure I have power settings at their most "generous" for every component) and tells me to check for BIOS updates (BIOS just updated less than a month ago).  Any insights or suggestions are welcome.

Incidentally (or maybe not so incidental), the sound is not always affected (to my ears, anyway) when the max engine load exceeds 100% and there are a few late buffers).  But when the sound is poor, the max load is always reported at >100% and there are more than a few late buffers.

Thanks to all who have offered their thoughts and ideas.

2 hours ago, msmcleod said:

The simple answer is everything can affect performance, however for the most part CPU is by far the biggest driver - with CPU speed being the largest factor.  While a greater number of cores can help, due to the serial nature of how plugins / audio mixing are processed, there is almost always going to be one thread/core blocking the rest for at least some of the time.  So the faster the CPU, the quicker it can finish it's processing allowing the next lot of processing to be performed.

Amount of RAM doesn't really make a huge amount of difference, unless you're dealing with large sample libraries.  Of course, there is a minimum amount of RAM you will need to avoid unnecessary paging to hard-disk. The minimum recommended RAM is 16GB, which should be fine for general use. If you are using lots of sample based instruments, 32GB or more can help.   8GB is really not enough unless all you are doing is recording raw audio, and not using any plugins.  Faster RAM will improve performance, but may or may not be noticeable depending on the project.

Hard drive speed shouldn't be an issue unless you have a large audio track count, you use lots of sample based instruments, or you don't have enough RAM.  An SSD is much faster than a standard hard drive.  To give you an example: for me, Omnisphere used to take up to 45 seconds to load a patch from a HDD, which was reduced to less than 2 secs on an SSD.

For the most part, the audio interface should have little if any affect on performance.
 

Thanks for your thorough answer.  I figured RAM would not be part of the equation.  Anyway, I have 32 Gb which seems ample, though my prior system had 48.  Hard drive is SSD, though not a particularly fast one.  Not using large sample libraries, so I think it's probably adequate.  My processor is an i7-1165G7 - not spectacular, but seems like it should be up to the job.  I just replaced my 3rd gen 2i2 with Zoom's new UAC-232.  I have been running Sonar / Cakewalk for more than 20 years and have read about / done every tweak imaginable to optimize for music production.

The reason I posted my question is that lately several projects have been stuttering during playback (and occasionally stop playing altogether until restarting CW or the computer).  No dropout message, but I see max engine load as high as 180% and sometimes a lot of late buffers.  All this has happened probably more or less simultaneously with trading out the 2i2 for the UAC-232.  So I thought that might be the problem, it being a new product.  But the same projects that are problematic sometimes play with no problem and max out at, say, 55% max load with no late buffers.  I have an Apogee Duet (the model that was bundled with ProTools and was their first with Windows drivers).  I tried swapping out the UAC-232 for the Apogee and I would say the engine load is generally maybe 10 percentage points lower, but there's so much variability that it's hard to say for sure.  Once or twice it has also gone to >100% max engine load and a lot of late buffers.  Also wondering if some particular plugins are to blame.  I recently started using NI's RC 24 or RC 48 reverbs in virtually every project, and some of those recent projects also have NI's Replika or Replika XT (on not more than one track per project).  Replika has always seemed like a resource hog.

But if the plugins aren't to blame, I guess that leads me back to the CPU?  By the way, one of the first projects I noticed the issue on only had 2 vsti tracks and one audio track.  Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

Haha, no problem!

8 minutes ago, Colin Nicholls said:

Seriously folks, https://bandlab.github.io/cakewalk/docs/Cakewalk Reference Guide.pdf and Ctrl-F

Yes, I did read that, but if it answers my question, I don't understand how.  I always look for answers in various places (manual, previous posts, general Googling) before asking questions o a forum.

What hardware component is the principal driver of the performance measure "engine load?" CPU? Sound interface? Both? I am maxing it out a lot and trying to figure out what my weak link might be.

Can you de-authorize the installation on the old computer using iLok License Manager on the new computer and then activate it?  Well, I just answered my own question.  I have an unbootable computer that has used some iLok activations, and when I try to deactivate them on that computer (fortunately they all had remaining activations available), I get a message that says:

Source location is not accessible

Please run iLok License Manager on "UPSTAIRS" if you want to perform any operations on this location.

If you can no longer access this machine and would like to have your licenses back, please contact the appropriate publishers for a machine activation reset.

So how about trying what they suggest and contacting the plugin publisher? 

Hey, I do it the way you are trying to do it all the time, and it works even if, as some have noted, there is no data in Track 15.  On the other hand, I have tried using ripple / edit all and I never seem to be able to get it to delete a measure (or other selection) in the entire project, so I have just continued to do what you were doing.  Wondering why it didn't work for you here.

I keep every version of Kontakt installed on my machine for this very reason.  Obviously the data on everything is embedded somewhere in the Cakewalk  / Sonar file.  I would love for there to be a way to view this data.  But as someone mentioned above, I am carefully keeping notes on each VST used on every project now - wish I had done it all along.

Whenever I need to uninstall something that's misbehaving, I always use Revo Pro to uninstall.  It almost finds stuff in the registry that the program's uninstaller doesn't find and gives you the ability to delete those orphan entries (or not if you don't want to for some reason.:  So you might try that and see if you can then get a cleaner install.

Thanks for the all the suggestions about using a video editor.  I don't have one of the premium ones, but I have Cyberlink Power Director and it was able to do what I wanted perfectly.

15 hours ago, scook said:

Time/Pitch Stretch 2 was bundled with SONAR Platinum/Producer.

It is not a regular plug-in but the binary stretch.ax and the now almost useless stretch.hlp are installed alongside the DAW executable. Stretch.ax is registered as a DX plug-in.

If it is installed by any old 64bit Cakewalk DAW, it is available in all 64bit Cakewalk DAWs and CbB in the Process Effect > Audio Effects Time category in the clip context menu.

I have Sonar Platinum (64-bit) installed on my computer, and I am just not seeing this plugin.  I understand that it's not viewable with other FX , but when I right click my clip and select "Process Effect / Audio Effects," I can't find it anywhere.  I do see the Pitch Shifter plugin, and maybe I could use that in conjunction with stretching the time, but I want the pitch and time to change in tandem with each other.  Can you post a screen shot of the clip as the effect is selected?  Thanks.