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azslow3

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Posts posted by azslow3

  1. 20 hours ago, JnTuneTech said:

    Yes. As mentioned in the beginning. -Unfortunately though, there is no "fine" control that way, as you have found.  I have no idea if that is possible.

     

    10 hours ago, JnTuneTech said:

    Not specifically something I know of. Perhaps someone else reading this may offer some other perspective, some kind of MIDI CC to keyboard input mapping app perhaps?  I wish I could help more.

    Please tell me if I have failed to explain something, or you just don't want to use 3d party tools (even so in the second post you have nothing against that) or you for whatever reason just don't want use my tool(s). No problem, I will just shut up ;)

    But for Behringer X-Touch Mini I have already posted the link: https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,377.0.html

    It implements plug-in ACT control (apart from the rest) and supports coarse/fine changes using the leftmost bottom button (labeled as "MC", I call it "Shift"). As momentary (so opposite to current resolution when turning encoders while the button is pressed) and locked (pressing the button alone toggles current resolution).
    "Coarse" and "fine" resolutions can be changed to taste (as the whole functionality of the preset).

    Cakewalk Surfaces can trigger any keyboard keys, including "Control". Standard Mackie surface plug-in does that. In AZ Controller you can generate whatever computer keyboard input you want (f.e. BC2000 preset use that to open/modify/apply tempo change dialog, not used in mentioned Mini preset but can be added in no time). 

    Noticing computer keyboard modifiers are pressed is not supported by API (but can be done on Windows level, that is one from not many possible features which are currently not implemented in AZ Controller, there was no evidence that can be useful...).

    BTW there is Mackie preset in AZ Controller as well, with ACT support. That was  "a prove of concept" only (I was testing I can implement complete Mackie plug-in logic as a preset for AZ Controller), so it was not tested intensively and has some logical "bugs" (will not break the device or corrupt project, just some minor differences). But I guess it is possible to use it in practice (I have never tried since I don't have the device nor its clones).

     

  2. 4 hours ago, Bassfaceus said:

    Any ideas 

    I have no idea what you want here... You have started with some "claims", continued with some statements. You have got already almost all possible answers.

    Including RTFM. From that you could easily extract most answers. For your last post,  there is no fine control in "ACT MIDI controller" nor in "Cakewalk Generic Surface" plug-ins. Coarse resolution is also not configurable.

    You want a solution for X-Touch Mini which support ACT, Fine/Coarse switching and tunable resolution for both? It is already mentioned in this thread.

    You want yet other one? Then I can disappoint you, msmcleod and me are the the only people which was providing surface solutions/improvements last 8 years...

    • Like 1
  3. 6 hours ago, JnTuneTech said:

    Well, I would have to agree to disagree there. For instance, if a standard set of primary control functions (like in GM) could be proposed, and adopted by major parties, even at a basic level (VST common development, etc., as was done within VST2 using program change integration that matched MIDI standards), these things could be at least allowed to function with less user intervention. A DAW could support plugins that, when queried by a USB 2.0 MIDI device driver (and vice-versa), would respond to that request with the available mapped parameters, and then even present an interface to allow matching acceptance, and further customization if desired.   It is possible.

    Program change was almost abandoned since most synth and many FXes are unable to switch presets instantly. Note that the list of parameters (and automatable parameters) as well as choosing presets exist in plug-ins API. VST3 has tried to bringing that to the "next level" (effectively killing MIDI support). Queering surface capabilities has not standard at the moment, but at the end of the day that part can be manually done for most controllers within several minutes.
    And fixed "set of functions" is incomplete (and if someone will try to make it complete, the same thing will happened as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_incompleteness_theorems).

    As I have tried to explain, even when you know the controller layout and which parameters are available, there is no "one and the only right" mapping between these sets.
    The whole challenge is create more or less reasonable mapping. For DAW (at each production step, i mean recording, mixing, mastering) and individual plug-ins (can also be step dependent).

    The number of physical controls is limited. Obviously when you have more you can directly map more parameters at once (as with C4). You can try to use "banks" (fixed, as in Mackie or ACT MIDI or arbitrary as in AZ Controller), but that comes at price.

    I think one of the most advanced example of pre-made mapping at the moment is NI NKS. At least for instruments with following FXes (for not so clear reason, NKS is not working strait for just FXes, I guess the reason NI has not produced any controller without keyboard yet and so the whole concept is VSTi recording oriented). With a bit of "extra", that is reasonably usable during recording (https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,604.0.html). When complete setup is specially designed to work together (NI Maschine, Ableton, Pesonus, AVID have dedicated controllers), the workflow is even more convenient.

    But generic "device" with general "software" will never play perfect together, at least not automatically.

    PS. In Cakewalk AZ Controller is relatively simple way to play with "mappings". You can check that hardware definition takes short time, even with devices like MCU. And you have access to all parameters/functions (controllable in Cakewalk, "Dynamic mapping" and "Mackie mapping" including. But in practice you can spend years to find "perfect" mapping for any device with more then just transport buttons (and even just with transport buttons, think about transport and focus dependent button combinations ;)).

  4. MIDI protocol improvement can't improve the situation with surfaces. All modern surfaces are USB connected, they can use any carrier protocol they want (and some do). F.e. OSC allows bi-directional communication practically without any limits in precision or the length of display(s).

    There was several attempts to establish "control standards". Mackie, EUCON, NI "Komplete Kontrol", etc.

    But there are at least 2 problems. The first you have already noticed. Even so there is ONE MCU device, the layout for buttons is DAW specific (there are different overlays for different DAWs). I mean even with just one device you can't make something "standard" which works fine in any DAW, the parameters you want to control are different.

    And once you have several significantly different devices... There can be  some "automatic" mapping (Cakewalk plug-in dynamic mapping in fact has user configurable pattern rules to auto-map parameters of new plug-ins...), may be even AI based. But till computers can read particular user mind, it is hard to tell which from 1000+ particular plug-in parameters particular user want control in particular situation. So there should be a possibility to overwrite the "expert choice".

    • Like 1
  5. Heh... I always forget that VSTi are also controllable since a while (since I don't have/use real MCU, that change just doesn't stay in my head...).

    For Mini,  https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,377.0.html can give an idea what is possible to do with ANY controller. So there is more then one way to bind a controller to Cakewalk. When people write "MCU has 1001 function in REAPER", they normally use CSI or other third party solution. For Cakewalk there are less
    third party solutions, but at least one is available.

    "ACT" is still confusing term. In general, it covers all surface integration plug-ins in Cakewalk (including Mackie). But "ACT Learn" is related to one sub-component, I call it "Dynamic plug-in mapping", which is not used in Mackie plug-in. Note that working with these mappings can be tricky, Mackie mappings are more "stable". 

    • Like 1
  6. 10 hours ago, Bassfaceus said:

    I have the big X touch and have /am finding it frustrating that i cant control 3rd party VSTs

    Other can (VST, but not VSTi).

    10 hours ago, Bassfaceus said:

    (should i be able to get some of the buttons to react to ACT learn

    coz i cant get that happening)

    No, "ACT learn" is not working (in standard setup), it controls VSTs other way.

    10 hours ago, Bassfaceus said:

    Ive been trying to work this out for a while now and a, coming to the conclusion

    that other DAWs have better integration

    Particularly Reaper and Studio one...

    they are able to control 3rd party vsts and do a lot more.

    Not really, at least not REAPER (in standard setup).

    10 hours ago, Bassfaceus said:

    Part of me is wondering if this will be rectified in the new release

    You mean new Bandlab products? There was no info about Surfaces Support changes yet.

    10 hours ago, Bassfaceus said:

    The upshot of this is that i hope i dont have to abandon Cakewalk

    to get these features.

    I would rather not have to learn another DAW.

    Than learn how to do this in Cakewalk...

    10 hours ago, Bassfaceus said:

    any body have any ideas to get the x touch to do what i want???

    Good idea is start reading the documentation...
    For alternative options search this forum, that topic is discussed more then 100 times already...

    🤪

    • Like 4
    • Great Idea 1
  7. Starting with X it is almost impossible to use Cakewalk accessible way. There was some "attempts" from Cakewalk team, in X2 and some promises last year. But nothing has materialized yet.

    So I recommend to change the DAW from Sonar 8.5 to REAPER, Samplitude or ProTools (on Mac).

    For REAPER there is (free) OSARA accessibility solution,  it works good with NVDA or JAWS. There are also several projects for NVDA and JAWS separately to work with particular plug-ins. More info: https://www.reaperaccessibility.com/wiki/Main_Page

    For Samplitude there is  a set of good written JAWS scripts.

    I have almost no info about ProTools, but I have heard it is reasonably accessible on Mac.

    • Like 1
  8. 12 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

    That listing is useless in practice because you don't know which features are on each versions, especially if you compare with something like Cubase's which also tells you which versions have which new features.

    https://www.steinberg.net/cubase/new-features/

    "New" features page is not the best to check differences in editions. For Cubase it is https://www.steinberg.net/cubase/compare-editions/

    BTW have you managed to scroll down the page I have linked?  I mean it gives direct official answer on the question "IS THIS TRUE?" (the subject of this thread) ;)

    PS. For those who want compare the distribution of features with Ozone 9,  f.e.:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20201112012340/https://www.izotope.com/en/products/ozone/features.html

  9. 5 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

    I don't think your analogy with a phone works for the situation as this is the latest version change for a line of software where the developer has removed significant functionality. It's not a different product,  just the latest version.

    I am for "backward compatibility" in the number of features for similar named products. In phones, cars, computers and software. But the reality is different. New phones loose connectors, removable batteries and sometimes (in my case) readability of the display (even so it is bigger). Computers no longer have "old" ports and buses. Some audio interfaces are "obsolete" just by one number in one text file of there drivers. Software can loose features. Offline activation can be removed in "minor" version update. I mean we have to accept that, I don't say I find all that good.

    Note that there are significant changes with iZotope as a company. It is now in Native Instruments "family". Ozone 10 Standard is included into Komplete 14. Some priorities and marketing politic was changes and I guess some "cuts" are the result of these changes.

    We are on Cakewalk forum, for which significant changes are announced. "Cakewalk Sonar" will have the same name but it will be different product. Some have already noted "CbB is free" and "we have payed for lifetime license".  In this thread that is "I could get what I need from Ozone for free (or almost)". Will that change anything? I don't think so.

    BTW what is included in clearly listed.  https://www.izotope.com/en/products/ozone/features.html

     

  10. Unlike with some other products, it is possible to download and install older versions even after "upgrade". So what's the problem? The company has not packed the features you want into the newer version? Don't buy it or buy different edition.

    I can complain what my newer mobile does not have in comparison with 6 years old one, from the same company and in the same series. But that is just a bad excuse for not checking what I was going to buy...

    • Like 2
  11. I have understood there is a different in "gaming" and "audio" sound cards when by occasion have exchanged SB (ISA) with Gravis Ultrasound in my first PC...

    Decades later, after connecting M-Audio (Firewire) in addition to SB (PCI), I have realized that Creative gaming cards are still not good for music 🤪

  12. 15 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

    REAPER only has anticipative processing if you set it to do it in the settings. It is off by default because some plugins don't play well with it.

    I don't think without this option REAPER is able significantly beat Cakewalk in number of working plug-ins. As I have mentioned, in my tests some years ago the result was opposite. Since OP has observed the effect (or at least claims he had it...), I assume anticipative processing was on.

    It can be OP experience the bottleneck from completely different part of the system(s), I don't think he is using Studiocat hardware nor similarly  optimized system. But we don't know that.

    Even so I had no problems with render-ahead (f.e. I don't have UAD), anticipative processing can be switched off per track. Till the effect is using some hardware, inability to work with anticipative processing will probably influence offline rendering as well (from plug-in perspective, except for GUI, that is the same). Also most DAWs support some kind of ahead rendering. I mean such plug-ins will appear "buggy" in many DAWs and particular conditions. I guess in the mean time plug-ins developers are aware.

     

  13. On 6/27/2023 at 1:52 AM, Misha said:

    What I am saying is that Reaper and Cubase handle larger projects better. (More stable) How they do it?

    REAPER has so called "anticipative" processing. During mixing (and on all chains without armed tracks during recording) the processing can be not done in time, it renders ahead 200ms (tunable default). Effectively that means the buffer size is 8820 (at 44.1kHz), independent which buffer setting you have for the audio interface.

    Cakewalk is traditionally "real-time only". In mixing and recording it does everything with the buffer size of your audio interface.

    Is the first approach definitively better? It depends. There are consequences. F.e. REAPER quantize PDC (plug-ins own "look-ahead" and so latency, not related to performance, driven by algo the plug-in implements) to the audio interface buffer size (previously for each plug-in, in recent versions per track). Depending from the project, the difference can be significant (usable for recording plug-ins normally have tiny look-ahead, way lower then the buffer size). Also general real-time (recording) can be worse with "mixed" engine (several years ago I have tested the limit with one "heavy" plugin on many tracks, Cakewalk won the test). Also unaware GUIs (almost all...) will "lag" behind the audio for the length of ahead processing, 200ms is noticeable. For 2x2 interfaces, so recording just a tiny part of the project per time, and mixing/mastering, rendering ahead is a good idea.

    What is the difference when the buffer sizes? Everything still has to be processed "in time", but the computer has more "air". PCs are designed for huge throughput, not for strict real-time. PCs are not DSPs. So without time limit PC can do enormous processing (billions of operations) let say in 1s, but if you want just one arithmetic operation but strictly every 0.1ms, you have to death-optimize the same PC, even so you want "just 10k operations per second".  And depending from the hardware and OS it can happened that can't be done at all.

    How that "in time" is defined? So how much time the DAW+plug-ins really have for the processing?
    Obviously  the buffer size multiplied by sampling rate gives the "time window". But that is not the whole story. The system latency can "eat" a part of that time. In practice the most significant influence has the quality of the audio interface and its drivers. In my tests on  absolutely the same system and project, RME driver with 48 samples buffer can happily work while (old) M-Audio with 128 samples cracks and (old) Roland with 128 samples sometimes produced "Stopped audio engine".

    --------------

    How to check the impact of your system latency and audio drivers?

    Most traditional methods are indirect and they don't give final and easy to interpret answer. Unfortunately Cakewalk also can't report that.

    In REAPER open Performance Meter and enable all RT settings (not default), including "Hold RT" (but set/unset it to have "current" numbers).
    Disable anticipative processing.  Try playback a single track project, a bit more heavy project, may be even your current Cakewalk project (ReaCWP allows
    open them in REAPER, not perfect but should be sufficient for performance tests).

    Is RT longest-block is far from minimum or even over the limit on empty project? There are definitively big problems with system latency, ASIO drivers or both.
    RT longest-block is ok but not "stable"? There are problems with the system (not optimized).
    Then check RT longest-block stability in projects with plug-ins. Ignore "initial" jumps, many plug-ins (especially VSTi) lagging at startup. But that can uncover problems with disk related system latency, not visible otherwise.

    Compare the behavior between different interfaces you have. That can show the "quality" of them (ASIO drivers, not audio...).

    • Like 4
  14. I have started "collecting" audio interfaces on e-bay. I mean for someone with Realtek and SB5.1 it is questionable to spend even 100€ for some "device" with unknown outcome (not even 5.1 capable!). It happened M-Audio FireWire Audiophile was around for cheap, and it is still on my desk as "default" interface (after several seconds with Shure headphones, I have recognized that Music Audio Interfaces are not the same as platinum USB cables... each computer upgrade I check if Realtek can do the trick as "default"... but no, at least not yet... lol).

    Later I took Phonic Firefly. I had to pay more for it, but will way less then for new with 8 channels, able to work standalone and without ground loop issues.

    There will be someone who wants "professional" FireWire device relatively cheap, as long as:
    * it works under Window 10/11 (without driver installation tricks)
    * there are PCIe FireWire cards

    I mean if FA-101 can be used under Windows 10, it is better mention that when selling on e-bay (or alike platform). And if you have PCIe FireWire which works good (so TI based) and you don't need, it may be worse to include it.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  15. AZController can also send OSC on record/play/mute/etc. toggles. Can be used to auto-change something in OSC capable mixers (Behringer, RME) or do something else wireless way (f.e. NodeMCU+LED matrix).

    In that direction but without DIY hardware, the approach can be REST commands from custom Control Surface to REST capable smart devices (bulb, power-plug, relay) (f.e. https://www.shelly.cloud/). AZController does not support that at the moment, but if someone really need it, I can add...

  16. Since I work and develop under Linux, I always have X2 in Wine, with several Cakewalk and other plug-ins. The rest in Windows VM.

    Unfortunately primary music software and hardware is not Linux aware. In reality that could be almost zero effort for plug-ins to support Linux, they all use multi-platform frameworks which are Linux aware. Native Instrument is using Qt (f.e. for Kontakt), which original platform in Linux... But they don't do this. Simply while they can... So for audio recording,  Linux is fine. For MIDI it is not worse the trouble. One day that can flip, as I have written most plug-ins can appear under Linux within a day, there are DAWs there, VST3 is also officially supported on Linux. But till that happens, no reason to convince other DAWs.

    BTW most computers in the word are probably running Linux. Just not end-user PCs, which some people think are "the only computers". But there are servers/farms/grids/clouds, Android devices (phones, TVs, etc.), tiny and embedded devices (f.e. consumer routers), which are technically speaking are computers running Linux. Other UNIX direct successors was no longer popular after related companies disappear (SUN, SGE, DEC), but Apple has decided to go BSD way (probably not liking Linux license). Note that many "own ways" Microsoft was trying with time was also replaced by "normal" UNIX concepts. I mean till now no one has really managed to make something better then this "vintage"  concept 😏  

    • Like 2
  17. 18 hours ago, User 905133 said:

    So, maybe under MIDI 2.0 these kinds of issues will not happen.

    Nothing has forced Microsoft to make "MIDI device" to "USB device" mapping tricky. 

    And how they are going to improve that at the end is not really MIDI 1/2/(3...) dependent.

    Also giving every device an unique Serial is an extra cent (or several) per device. Microsoft and MIDI do not have power to enforce anything. Some companies are ignoring USB specifications even for such devices as USB hubs... who cares...

    • Like 1
  18. Calling something "Cakewalk Sonar" wakes memories... Especially when it comes to "new"/"innovative"/"multi-platform". 8.5->X1,  X3->Platinum,  Platinum->Lifetime, "Sonar on Apple", "subscription", DAW-locked plug-ins, etc. With core engine stay the same (obviously it was genius, it has survived two decades...) and "side effects" from mentioned changes.

    Some previous plans and explanations (partially already mentioned in this thread) concerning CbB already smelled for me. Now there are new "plans", without any real explanations nor details.

    I guess people who have worked with Cakewalk several decades will continue, no matter what. People for which CbB was just a "free DAW" will switch to another free DAW. And people which have found another "home" will not return back.

    I mean I don't see a good reason why someone plays "Cakewalk Sonar" card in BandLab game. That term has flavor of "aged, buggy and abandoned" together with added recently "free"... 

     

    • Like 1
  19. After Kontakt 7 appears, I have installed Kontakt 7 player. Since then KK loads all instruments in that player instead of Kontakt 6.
    Now that... Well, I guess I have to upgrade to be less annoyed. Eliminating bad feeling during music creation is worse €100 😜

  20. When the noise is not changing, "by sample" removal works good. Mentioned ReaFIR is probably the best free way for CbB, with real-time spectrum and reduction level adjustment. But find good tutorial how to use it, that is not obvious.

    For changing noise, payed solutions (f.e. RX)  do the job better.

    In extreme cases, for example when there is background music, the voice should be separated first. F.e. with https://github.com/deezer/spleeter (free). The quality of the result is far from perfect, but better then no processing at all...

  21. 4 hours ago, Lee Jackson said:

    After doing some more research (and talking with Sweetwater some more) I settled on a Korg nanoKONTROL Studio Mobile MIDI Control Surface. Got it for $161 including tax. I'm hoping I didn't screw myself. What is your opinion on this unit? From what I can tell, I should be able to access more than just volume and pan. Am I right?

    For what it is that is not a bad choice. As you can see in referenced thread, msmcleod use and recommend it.  He is official control surfaces support for Cakewalk, so you are covered.

    From functionality point of view it is the same as SL Mixface, just with bigger jogger on the left side and dedicated strip buttons instead of switch mode buttons.

    Note that with any controller you can use "not official" AZ Controller way. By that you can control whatever is theoretically possible in Cakewalk, for example switching the controller between DAW, plug-in dynamic mapping and MIDI learn in VSTi from the controller itself, assigning arbitrary functions to all controls and combinations, etc. But since I don't have this device there is no ready to use preset.

  22. 15 hours ago, Lee Jackson said:

    Could you elaborate on this, please? Where are you seeing it, and what does it look like? I'd like to get a Studiologic SL Mixface, and it has a Cubase mode. Would that perhaps work with this?

    https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/mixface/

    Original Mackie Control (https://mackie.com/en/products/controllers/mcu-pro-and-xt-pro) has many non-strip buttons (on the right side of strip controls).
    What these buttons are sending is fixed, but what they supposed to do is particular DAW dependent. There are overlays for each DAW, f.e. https://www.loudtechnologies.eu/shop/en/mackie-mcu-midi-controllers/lexan-overlay/g-10000205 (note there is a separate Cakewalk overlay).

    Mackie "compatible" devices (NanoKontrol2, Studiologic SL Mixface, etc.) do NOT have all buttons the original device has. They have decided which buttons are most important in particular DAW. "Cubase mode" in Cakewalk surface plug-in tries to use Cubase layout for Mackie Control. So "most important for Cubase" buttons are likely mapped to the corresponding functions in Cakewalk.

    Original device has motorized faders, encoders and strip displays. Tiny (but in SL Mixface case not really cheap...) "compatible" devices have finite knobs and not motorized short faders. So not only big part of foreseen functionality is not possible at all, what is controllable does not work as foreseen by design. Motorized faders and encoders are always "at correct position", finite controls are not.

    Depending what you want to do, NanoKontrol or SL Mixface can be reasonable. But be aware what you can control, f.e. compare:
    https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/mixface/specs/ (note that on the right side of the "DAW" is the WHOLE list what is controllable)
    with
    https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,604.0.html

    I mean if you want quickly mix 8 track project by adjusting the volume and pan (and only that), especially if the intention to do this live, SL Mixface will do the trick.
    If you want control one instrument in a time (MIDI learn inside instrument, rarely switching between instruments), SL Mixface can help as well.
    For anything else there are better options, even for the same money and size.

  23. Note that all applications and Windows itself should use the same sample rate. Some applications don't show it, but they are obviously also using some value.
    Interfaces are normally flexible to set any sample rate they support, but once set an application is using the interface it can't be changed. F.e. if you start Firefox and browse YouTube, it opens audio device with some particular sample rate. If you then start any application in any mode with different rate, even so it can "successfully" open the interface with that other rate (interface/drivers dependent), that is not going to work.

    I have observed many related troubles with that and soft loop-backs. Especially when you have more then one device attached, apps and Windows tend to change there mind about rates, producing all kind of strange results ("child voice" in Zoom, silence, clicks and pops, unusual noise, periodic pauses, etc.). While one interface with own drivers normally "works or doesn't", in the soft loop-back chains "automatic" conversions can produce "partially works" results.

    Also note that "loopback" feature of most interface is limited. To have the flexibility of soft loop-back inside interface drivers you will need RME...

    • Like 1
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