Steve Harder

SOLVED!

Noel - THANK YOU for saving me from another Duh! moment.

My initial thought was "I type text in VSTs all the time."   But then realized that typing text into a FileSave text entry is likely using a dialog that is provided by the operating system, not the vst itself.

This is a bump.

VSL Synchron player usage in my template is growing as they add high quality libraries to their BigBangOchestra series.  And the Synchron player allows easy customization of many midi parameters. 

I'd like to be able to access those customization text boxes within Cakewalk rather than having to leave, open standalone Synchron, modify and save preset, and then reload in Cakewalk.

I understand the developers have been very busy with all the recent excellent updates and this is a "niche" bug.  Thanks for your help.

I was envious of some higher end midi keyboards that had some form of "scale lock" built into them.  My Daw (Cakewalk)  currently does not have realtime scale lock feature built into it.

I am not an accomplished keyboardist.  I only have rudimentary music theory.  I don't have all my keys and scales memorized.

I have Scaler2, really like it, and it has advanced my music theory knowledge in many ways.  I liked the Keys-Lock Scale on White Keys function.  It gave me an efficient tool to use as I explored different scales and melodies.

But I found Scaler2 somewhat cumbersome to use as I explored melodies to go with selected chords.  

My usual simple example setup in piano roll was:
Instrument track with Scaler2 with input set to midi keyboard.
One or more instrument track with piano samples with input set to Scaler2 output.
Select Scaler2 track, be sure Input Echo was set to on within the target track to sound my melody.
Then select piano track to tweak some midi but I cannot use midi keyboard as input.
Then select Scaler2 to go back to some more noodling.  Back and forth, etc ...  Capture midi In Scaler2 and paste ...

And step record doesn't work.  You can set target as piano track but step record only sees and records the notes that are input into Scaler2, not the output from Scaler 2.

So I needed to get scale lock out onto my midi keyboard (Nektar LX61+)somehow.

So I used free Tone2_Nanohost to create a standalone version of Scaler2.
And I used free loopBe as the means of getting Scaler2 output into Cakewalk.
Keyboard into standalone Nanohost Scaler2 into loopBe into DAW.

This gives the same Scaler2 functionality.  Within Cakewalk I can select piano track and it always receives the Scaler2 output.  Use step record and it works.  Move to another piano track without having to fiddle input echo.  In Scaler2 turn on scale lock or off.

It does take a little different setup on a new project but it's seamless after that.

FWIW.
If there is any interest I could work up a more detailed printscreen step by step.
 

SOLVED!

Noel - THANK YOU for saving me from another Duh! moment.

My initial thought was "I type text in VSTs all the time."   But then realized that typing text into a FileSave text entry is likely using a dialog that is provided by the operating system, not the vst itself.

This bug has existed in prior versions of Cakewalk.  I have not reported it previously.

In the Synchron Player Control panel I am attempting to change a text entry of "-inf" to "-20" in the Expression row.  I double click to select the text entry area.  Then typing "-20" causes the Synchron Instrument interface to close entirely.  This seems to be an  issue of text handling between Synchron and Cakewalk.  The behavior is different between numpad and numeric keys and letter keys but all fail.  Cakewalk seems to be intercepting keystrokes instead of passing them on to Synchron, even though the Synchron text entry box is still open.  This behavior occurs on all Synchron text entry boxes in the Control area.  

My workaround is use the standalone Synchron and save a user preset.  But it's a hassle to save and quit Cakewalk and then reload.  So would be nice to tweak Synchron inside Cakewalk.

Art Conductor maps for Cakewalk work as advertised.

If you are a "coder" who likes getting into the details and don't own many sample libraries then creating your own is probably the economical way to go.

If you own lots of sample libraries that are on the ArtCond list and you want to get on with creating music while using articulation maps to expedite your creativity then ArtCond library is very worthwhile.

I'm a coder who has a number of libraries.  As soon as I tried articulation maps I was re-exploring some libraries that previously were cumbersome to use but now were more accessible and friendly.

I bought ArtCond because I didn't want to spend a ton of time creating maps when I could be creating music.

I didn't know what I was missing until I started using articulation maps.  Art maps have given me a more fluid and intuitive and creative way of using  my sample libraries.  

Now I want to go further.  Now I want to use a single keypress or button to select the most used articulations across libraries.  I'd like to use my external midi controller's assignable buttons to select the most often used articulations in a map.  Using Streamdeck is also a possibility.

This would require a consistent art map structure, a blueprint that is always followed.  Babylonwaves Art Conductor does incorporate a consistent structure in their maps.  But you could create your own maps to your own blueprint.

So the next step is the connection between the external buttons and Cakewalk.  It's as though we need a keyswitch or trigger that will control the articulation map interface that will then assign the articulation.

As this is just my "woke up this morning with an idea" brainstorming , I don't yet see a clear pathway to implementing this in Cakewalk. So I'm interested in input from others.

Art maps are in their first iteration in Cakewalk.  If my goal has interest among other users I'm hopeful that Cakewalk can provide the access to internal features to help make this happen.

Your thoughts please ...

Marc

I've seen your posts on vi-control re leveraging the consistent structure of ArtCond maps by then using dedicated controller buttons to speed selecting articulations.

Could you comment on that strategy?

My goal would be to use my external midi controller assignable buttons to select the most often used articulations.  Streamdeck also comes to mind.

Marc

I really appreciate the effort you've put into porting ArtCond over to Cakewalk.

I will purchase today.  I want to support developers who help us improve the Cakewalk experience.

I know that ArtCond  adds maps as new libraries are released.  How is access to the new material handled? 

Art Conductor is worth the investment.  I can immediately apply the power and flexibility of articulation maps to libraries I own.  I'm a ComposerCloud subscriber.  Art Conductor's support for EastWest is extensive and articulation maps will improve the users experience in CCloud.

4 hours ago, Steve Harder said:

I will go back thru Cubase docs/ vids from earlier versions and try to determine what/how they implemented Chord Track

7 years or so ago Cubase 7 introduced Chord Track.  The first implementation had the following features.

Can send midi out to instrument for auditioning chords.
 Chord Track located in display like Arranger Track.
Select a chord by dropdown or by playing a chord on keyboard.
Chord Assistant can suggest an intermediate chord between 2 chords, with varying complexity.
Can change voicing of chord from the info line related to Chord Track.  Root, 1st inv, 2nd inv, etc.
Display root key and scale. 
Different chord voicings.  Piano, pop, jazz, rock.
Can write midi from Chord Track to midi track.
Can be applied to existing project by selecting tracks, will detect chords, then you change chords in Chord Track and midi in associated tracks will be altered accordingly.
 Live Transform,  where you play identical notes and they are transformed to match the current chord.
 Coordination of audio track with a Melodyne like product.

I would utilize all except the audio track Melodyne integration.  I am primarily interested in orchestral sample libraries, but other users might give audio a higher priority.

I watched several vids but this gives a succinct overview.

25 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Rather than looking at the kitchen sink of chord track like features or what other DAW's do, I'm actually more interested in how you use a feature like this or if you haven't tried it what it would do to improve your workflow with music production.

Preface, I do not have any formal education in music theory.

I use Scaler 2 to prototype chord progressions.  I currently bring over a progression taking notes of target progression, then in Scaler either play chords into a Cakewalk midi track via Record, or capture midi in Scaler and then paste into Cakewalk track.  I then use lots of track markers to note what each chord is and move forward.

I've watched vids of Cubase chord track.  Initially just having the chord track display chords and create those chords would be a timesaver.  The circle of fifths popup is a tool I understand how to use.

Once again, I am not an accomplished composer, so I would not be an immediate consumer of all the bells/whistles mentioned in our posts here.

I think a staged incremental implementation would be appropriate.  With that in mind I will go back thru Cubase docs/ vids from earlier versions and try to determine what/how they implemented Chord Track.  I'll report back on that.

Articulation map is already a huge shortcut for me.  I find myself using a couple of libraries that previously were cumbersome to use. 

I really appreciate all the effort that you and the developers are putting into new features, supporting users of those new features, while stomping on new and old bugs.

2 hours ago, Colin Nicholls said:

the file format is JSON, not XML.

Right you are.  Both of them lived in the same neighborhood but went to different schools.

Want to globally change a parameter in an articulation map without having to visit each instance in the map editor?

Articulation maps (.artmap) are xml files and can be opened with any text editor.

If you've never looked inside an xml they can look daunting.  But spend a little time looking around and you'll be able to find how the parameter you want to change  is stored.  Make the changes you want to one articulation, export the map, open in text editor, find the articulation you changed and see how it differs from all  the others. And then it's just a matter of doing a careful find/replace all. 

Can save a lot of time if every articulation has multiple elements.

9 minutes ago, bitflipper said:

I just tested this with Kontakt, and it didn't care if the keyswitch's velocity was 0 or not

VSL's quality control is pretty good, so I'm going to say this is a feature not a bug.  The workaround is certainly easy.  I'm sure we will continue to collect "folklore" about the idiosyncrasies of various sample libraries and how they handle keyswitching.

### Go to this thread for up to date artic maps.

########

Cakewalk articulation maps for

VSL Big Bang Orchestra

Free Basics, Andromeda, Hercules, Jupiter, Kopernikus, Lyra, Musca, Orion

These are working well for me but am interested in hearing of any issues that crop up.

Setting Velocity to a non-zero value solved a problem with articulation not chasing when starting play in the middle of note.  

More info on that

VSL Big Bang.zip

I had a problem in VSL Synchron player BBO libraries.  Starting playback in the middle of a note does not cause the keyswitch to be recognized by Synchron player.

I set up a simple test track where 3 consecutive notes each had an easy to identify articulation set.  Play thru all 3 and all is well.  Play thru 1, stop, set cursor at middle of 3 and play, and you would hear the note 1 articulation on note 3.

I tried every iteration of "play at" and "chase mode".  I checked Preferences | Project | MIDI, and made sure both "MIDI Event Chase on Play" and "Include Note Events." are selected.

Then I noticed "velocity" was 0, I tried changing it to 100, and problem was solved!  

Further testing showed that VSL Synchron wasn't fussy about "play at" and "chase mode".  I left mine at the map editor default for new midi event of Duration and CC's.

The easy way to change the velocity globally in an articulation map is open the map in a text editor (map is an xml file).  Make a backup first.

Change every occurrence of ["b3":0,] to ["b3":100,].   The [ ] are my delimiters and should not be included in the find/replace text.

So keep velocity in mind if you are having issues with articulation keyswitches not chasing properly when starting play in middle of notes.  FWIW.
 

In my experience each "group" in the "Articulation Groups" section will appear on a separate line in the articulation pane on the piano roll.

Here is a good intro vid of Cubase Chord Track that will get you thinking.

Nico is Swiss. He uses a text to voice narrator. He has many excellent vids on youtube or his own site composingtips.com.  Check him out.  Some of the vids are Cubase specific but most are Daw neutral with a focus on orchestration techniques.

38 minutes ago, razor7music said:

but I guess they are compatible with Cubase so you can just import those.

While importing Cubase expression maps is a great way to jumpstart using articulation maps Cakewalk does offer the extra capability to organize arts into folders.  So Cakewalk maps will have a "value- added" capability that users may want to use and then share.

Cubase maps end up being one long list of articulations for an instrument.  Being able to organize that list into a tree structure adds some usability.

Keep your posts coming.  We need to keep this thread at the top of this forum!

54 minutes ago, Colin Nicholls said:

I haven't imported any articulation maps from third parties

The Cubase expression maps I've imported have all worked.  Cubase maps are stored in a binary file, so not easily viewed, but must be using note number.

40 minutes ago, abacab said:

thought I would just post a couple of video examples of using the chord track

Thanks for these posts.  

I don't have hands on experience with Chord Track so it's good to hear from users who have other Daws that provide it.

I encourage others to keep posting.  Your enthusiasm will encourage the Cakewalk developers to put Chord Track into the future feature pipeline.

13 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

Are saying that the thread that you didn't start has been started by someone else and you would like people with knowledge of music theory to post comments about the Chord Track in the other thread?  

Yes

I'm asking someone who can make a lucid, logical and detailed request for Chord Track to start the thread in https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/forum/8-feedback-loop/.

40 minutes ago, pbognar said:

Have you created the thread yet? 

No, I don't have a formal or developed knowledge of music theory, I know what I don't know.  So I'm hoping others will jump in based on more experience than I have.

Chord Track would be as big an addition to Cakewalk as articulation maps are.  So I'm really encouraged that Noel expressed interest in hearing input.