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Ewoof

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    Cakewalk Deep Integration with Izotope Visual Mixer

    in Feedback Loop

    Posted · Edited by Ewoof Music

    So I've been using Visual mixer by Izotope and I have concluded that it really helps with mixing because it helps visualize what volume, panning and wideness is doing to the mix. It controls theses parameters by using another plugin called relay which is plugin which literally emulates all the controls seen in a normal track like the gain knob, pan, etc but allows the visual mixer to control them.

    2005883700_Screenshot2021-08-09101859.thumb.jpg.fb116eb2b75360b5fc9c547bce59f8a1.jpg

    Because it emulates the controls, it renders the controls given by the DAW redundant and close to useless. (useless might be a stress but I'm just making a point). I want to make it more intuitive so I am wondering whether Cakewalk allows us to connect the gain knob or those buttons to a plugin. If not do you think there is  a work around. 

     

    How I made a Polo G Beat in 15 min

    in Tutorials

    Posted · Edited by Ewoof Music

    Hey Guys,

    My channel is currently only having 207 subscribers and I believe my videos are helpful to people who want to produce in Cakewalk.  However, it is not reaching a lot of people. If you think my channel is helpful, please like the video and if you wanna still help, you can subscribe and share the video.

    Thank you

     

    • Like 3

    Please add a sampler to Cakewalk

    in Feedback Loop

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Maestro said:

    Uh...  What?  That's quite the oxymoron. People depended on them because that is what they had and using the Sampler completely offset any perceived issues some people may have had with them.  The benefits far outweighed the deficits.  Either you use the Sampler, or you waste countless hours manually doing (with DAW tools) what it does much better out of the box.

    Like I said, CPU Intensity depends on your spec package.  What CPU is in your PC?  I am not seeing Serum-level CPU use with Komplete Kontrol on my systems (Laptop and Desktop), so I'm not really understanding where this is coming from.

    When using KK as a Sampler Track, you are not running Synths or Virtual Instruments in Komplete Kontrol.  You're simply loading the Sample into the instance, using the Sample Editor to edit to taste, and then playing it back chromatically via a MIDI Track.  I am not asking anyone to load Massive X in Komplete Kontrol.  This works pretty much identically - for the most part - to the FL Studio Sampler Channel plugin, which itself is not free in terms of processing.

    You have a good point. You are especially right about the CPU discussion.  But you have to agree with me that if a sampler isn't well optimized with a DAW, it can waste time. For example, if you want to use a step sequencer with any of these samplers, you would realize that the root notes do not match which means you have to manually do it.  

    I'm just saying that they are harder to use and would be an improvement with the "production workflow" in Cakewalk. 

    1 hour ago, Maestro said:

    FL is popular with Beatmakers.  Producers in the EDM/Trance/etc. genres tend to bias HEAVILY to Live, and most people go straight to Live Suite (and, increasingly, Bitwig with people really into sound design).  FL is popular with Hip Hop and Trap Producers who like it's pattern-based production features.

    Lastly, FL Studio is known for having some pretty CPU inefficient plugins.  Even things like the stock Parametric EQ is known to be fairly CPU intensive, in comparison to third party plugins or stock plugins in other DAWs.  Being a first party bundled plugin does not guarantee it will be free of bugs, be CPU efficient, or never (rather, hardy ever) crash.  History has disproven this theory, time and time again.

    I'm saying that the new generation of producers are now mostly hip-hop and EDM producers. I should have clarify my what I was trying to say when talking about the new generation of producers. Cakewalk is getting an influx of people who want to learn how to produce these genres. The workflow is simply harder than the other DAWs. That is why I am saying bring a sampler or a well optimized sampler which takes advantage of the features of Cakewalk would improve music production a lot. Cakewalk is already one of the best in terms of mixing. But you have to agree with me that it is not as good in producing these compared to other DAWs.

    And also, you are telling me that an average person who is trying to get the most out of their money will pay for a sampler which the same price of a DAW that has good and usable plugins and a workflow which makes it easier for them to produce.  And also technically, Fl studio is less prone to crashes compared to Cakewalk. The Cakewalk team have an incredible job to make Cakewalk stable but it is more prone to crashing than the other popular DAWs. 

    1 hour ago, Maestro said:

    People are leaving FL or Ableton for Pro Tools, Cubase, Digital Performer, etc. just because they have a Sampler.  And the fact that most people going to Live are going straight to Live Suite ($750) tells me that price is not really a factor to many of these people.  The reason why many people use FL Studio (the upstarts, anyways) is because it is easily pirated.  So, as far as those people are concerned, the price of Cakewalk and FL Studio are the same.

    In addition to that, there is a MASSIVE amount of Tutorial content for Production of those genres of music (Trap, Hip Hop, Trance, EDM, D&B, etc.) in those DAWs.  Courses on Groove3.  Production Templates everywhere.  Presets and FX Chains available for their Instruments/Synths.  The same ecosystem of content does not exist for Cakewalk.  At the end of the day, it's the workflow, feature disparity, and mindshare disparity that keeps peopel off of Cakewalk - not the lack of a Sampler.  That is a trivial problem to solve.  The others aren't.

    People are leaving DAWs for having a sampler?? I feel like this is a typing error.

    Also, those are not the people I was trying to appeal to when discussing. I apologize for not clarifying.  I'm looking at the upcoming producers.  

    Also, right now I can say that now more tutorials are been made for Cakewalk more than it was Sonar. It is currently less but I can say that in the future, many people will make more videos. I'm currently one of them. Those resources of tutorials etc can only increase if more people use it. Cakewalk isn't as well known compared to the others but I believe that if they keep on improving the DAW and more people make YouTube channels it can become as big as the popular DAWs. Here is my reasoning: 

    On 5/2/2020 at 8:52 AM, E-Woof Music said:

    I understand that Cakewalk used to be about $500 which meant that beginners were not who they were appealing to, but to the pros who did not really need built-in instrument plugins because they can afford to buy or have amassed a lot of plugins throughout the years or pros who mostly used Cakewalk for recording, mixing and mastering. However, the Cakewalk Sonar then doesn't have the advantage the present Cakewalk has, which is a loyal fanbase of people who haven't even used Cakewalk before : "Bandlab Users."  Let's use logic pro for an example: Logic pro's success can be seen in their business model which is, "Attract beginners with Garageband and hope that they would eventually upgrade to Logic Pro." Cakewalk now has more than 3 million people using Bandlab and some of them have upgraded to Cakewalk. In fact I was one of them. I used Bandlab for a year then came to Cakewalk

    Cakewalk has the potential of bringing in new producers who came from Bandlab. I'm one of them and I know others who also had a similar experience. Cakewalk is quickly becoming a go to place. With every single update they make they are removing many of the reasons why people were discouraging Cakewalk. I just feel that this is going to help Cakewalk by catering to the new generation of producers which mostly want to make the songs that they hear on the radio(Hip-Hop, EDM, Pop, etc).

     

    1 hour ago, Maestro said:

    I didn't.  I think what is available often works well.  You're just cherry picking the few that you don't think work "well enough" because you're pushing for a first-party option (because you're convinced that they are better de facto, which is [usually] not [always] the case).  That as my point.  The topic lead-off was constructed in a way that basically prohibits mention of viable third party options to leave room only for what the OP wants.  If the bakers spent all of their time adding features redundant with easily accessible plugins, then when are they actually going to get around to doing things like improving the Staff View, Adding VCAs, Improving Drum Maps, etc.

    You know, things you cannot "just fix with a plugin."

    The reason why Articulation Lanes and the Arranger Matter is precisely for this reason.  I cannot just go to N-I and download an Arranger View for Cakewalk, or an Articulation Manager/Lane.  I can go there and get a Sampler, for free, and it works... very well.

    I can cherry pick areas of Cakewalk that aren't great and tell people that it's a horrible DAW and they should just default to Live or FL for production, but you'd make the same argument that I am making - for exactly the same reasons I am making it.  In fact, that is exactly what everyone here was doing when the DAW was criticized for including very old, out of date stock plugins...  Telling the people complaining they should just go and download MeldaProduction Freebies, etc.

    The market being chock full of third-party options is going to make any argument based around assumptive "first party is always better" look weak.

    The reason why people go to FL or Ableton has to do with the workflow and features of those DAWs beyond a native Sampler (or even Sample Editor, which I really want).

    Articulation and Arranger is important. I was one of people who requested for articulation lanes there since I make film scores. Now Cakewalk is an awesome DAW for especially for making genres such as film Score . The issue is that for hip-hop, pop, and EDM, which are the popular music of the 21'st Century, they use the sampling workflow. A sampler has to be considered since it is so fundamental that I think this is something that Cakewalk should do next. Also, I'm really curious what other features you think Cakewalk should do next. 

    2 hours ago, Maestro said:

    I am constantly pushing for people to go with Cakewalk when they ask about what "cheap/free" DAW to use, and it's hard to get them on board because the music production user base is very pro-piracy; and you cannot use price as a competitive advantage.  Also, these people love to bandwagon what is popular, or heavily used, and will get FL Studio or Live simply so that they can say they use it and tap into the ecosystem of users and content out there.  Using Ableton Live is like buying a MacBook or Gucci shoes to these people. It's basically the luxury brand of Music Production.  FL is often nothing more than the illegitimately acquired fallback for people who can't afford Live.

    Same thing happens with Reaper for recording/mixing.  People will literally argue with you that REAPER is "free," when it very clearly is not.  I've grown exasperated trying to fight against that, and I'm pretty agnostic when it comes to DAWs (or, rather, equally critical across the board).

    Adding a first party Sampler isn't even the tip of the ice berg as far as getting "Live Kiddies" onto Cakewalk.  This is going to be like getting Recording Studios off of Pro Tools.  Good Luck.

    And I should also mention that quite a few Performance and Pad Controllers are designed for Live, and don't work nearly as well with Cakewalk (or many other DAWs).

    Yes you are right about the piracy now not making price a determining factor.  And yes what gives these DAWs more value and workflow. I just want to make a point that a sampler does add value to the workflow of Cakewalk and brings more people to use it. Many are coming from Bandlab and have a good impression of Bandlab already and more people are using them. There are a lot of factors which determine what DAW to use and there is a lot II would like to respond to but the whole point was to say that adding a sampler is a good next step in improving the experience in Cakewalk. 

    I am open to hear where you think Cakewalk  should focus more on.

    Please add a sampler to Cakewalk

    in Feedback Loop

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Maestro said:

    People have been depending on them for decades and doing just fine.

    What makes them so dependable in other DAWs for other people, but so undependable in Cakewalk/SONAR for you?

    What you have written... is not very convincing.

    But I'm not opposed to adding it.  I just think the rationale (designed to avoid people suggesting alternative solutions) is rather weak 😉

    Steinberg had a 50% off sale on Groove Agent 5 not long ago.  Not sure how people can want a Drum Sampler so bad, yet ignore a deal like that.

    I could never use Sitala.  Feels like generic F/OSS, and isn't really offering the functionality that would mamke it worth running a whole plugin to do what it does.  I'd rather just create Drum Kit patches in my multi-timbral Sampler, which has better Sample Editing, FX, and Modulation options than that.

    I feel that is more of tolerance not dependence. Many users have to tolerate which plugins which easily crash,  are cpu intensive, and none of them are not well optimized so much that the step sequencer feels useless. Cakewalk excels at almost everything but producing. It is known in the producing world that the go to is FL Studio ,Ableton and Logic are the go to. I'm not taking Cakewalk for granted but the new generation of producers need a sampler a fundamental thing. I want Cakewalk to be a household name and not make people feel that Cakewalk is inferior because it is free. The developers have made a lot of progress in making new features . Therefore, I feel that this should be their next focus looking at how fundamental having a sampler in your DAW is. 

    I honestly did not know about Groove Agent but $90 is a hard pill to swallow. This sale isn't guaranteed which means people have to pay $180 just for a sampler. That is a $20 less than a Fl Studio which has looks like it has a better sampler ( mostly due to it's tight integration with Fl Studio), plus  the hundreds of free plugins and instruments it gives. That's the whole dilemma of Samplers. Every popular DAW has it which means that very few companies are going to put in resources to make a sampler because the know the demand isn't high enough.

    You just made my point that the samplers out there are not that great. This has to explain to you how hard it is to get a good sampler which also by chance works well with Cakewalk. If there were good and reasonable priced samplers I wouldn't be complaining. But the issues with third party especially their lack of optimization with Cakewalk slows down the music making process. 

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