Rfcousins

10 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

It this doesn't happen on USB 2.0 ports - That means you're using the USB2.0 cables. Double check and make sure you're using the USB 3.0 cables for 3.0 ports that came with it. 

Tascam USB20X20 USB3.0 comes with both USB3.0 cables and USB2.0 cables. 

Also check if you dont have a forgotten Asio4All drivers installed on you system still. 

Both my Scarlett and Twin had problems having both interface drivers and Asio4All drivers on the system. 

Actually, my US-20x20 only came with the USB 3.0 cable. My sense was that the difference was in the plug type that connects to the interface. The computer connection seems the same as USB 2.0 . Anyway, this is the only cable that I have tried as it is the one that connects to the interface properly. Never have used/installed Asio4All drivers.

Thanks again for the input.

Roger

19 hours ago, jackson white said:

What is the make and model of your motherboard?

fwiw, I'm using a US-20x20 into a USB 3.1 port on a rack mount PC.

Motherboard is ASUS P8P67-M..........USB 3.0 port on the motherboard. I tried a FebSmart 3.1 card from Amazon and the USB 20x20 was recognized but Cakewalk was locked/frozen trying to access. Aside from this 17-23 project (Not respronding) issue, all else seems to be fine.

Thanks for weighing in!

Roger

11 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

As a former professional software QA engineer, with such a precise (and well-observed, I might add) symptom, there are questions to be asked outside of the usual "running out of memory" "bad drive," etc.

The most important one is: what event happens on your system each time you open (or possibly save or close) a project? There is some event, such as initializing the ASIO driver, the MIDI port, something like that. After the 22nd time, it breaks something. Software bugs are sometimes like this.

My guess, since it stops happening when you disconnect the TASCAM (good troubleshooting, BTW), is that there is something going on either in its driver or in the hardware itself. It can only take being reinitialized (or whatever) 22 times before going into an error condition. Did the change in the number of projects opened coincide with a change in buffer size? If you switch to WASAPI driver mode, does it still exhibit the problem?

It is a little unusual to open and save 22 projects in a row, so it's possible that TASCAM didn't test for this exact condition in the driver software or the interface's firmware. In any case, you have identified the component that is most likely the source of the issue: your audio interface. Contact TASCAM and see if anyone else has experienced similar issues.

Great advice. I will test and report tomorrow. I also copied your post to Tascam support for reaction.

Regards,

Roger

16 hours ago, LarsF said:

"Where would I check on the pagefile setting etc?"

Starship Krupa mentioned it above, rather early task manager Performance tab.

How much physical memory are you having free just booted computer?
You have 24 GB in your specs for computer. So around 20 GB free is probably close.

How much free as Cakewalk is started?
How much after first project loaded?
How much after 2nd project loaded?

....and so forth.

Are you getting less and less free memory all the time?
A little is normal depending how much a project contains in sampler plugin instances etc.

So when getting to 17th - what does it say in free memory in Performance tab?
You can also look at memory in the Processes tab, how much Cakewalk alone is using.
But overall free memory in system will probably do - it probably says available physical memory somewhere.


When you start getting above 75% of physical ram memory used, windows is starting to use pagefile swapping to virtual memory, This is simply using a file on disk as temporary storage to extend capabilities overall what can run.

But just below 10 GB memory or so available might having system use pagefile, so just get the number of what task manager Performance says is free when you feel system is getting slow.

Since you had harddrives earlier this would use some memory as read cache for things you loaded. Now using SSD this read caching is not needed in the same way, since reading arbitrary spot on disk is so much faster and read caching.

So mission is
- put a number here on forum for taskmanager available memory as you getting a slow system(17th load or whatever)
- size of pagefile or virtual memory also put that number here

That will give clues what is going on....

Great advice,

I will get after testing this tomorrow !

Regards.

Roger

8 hours ago, LarsF said:

First I come to think of if 17 projects are open at the same time?
- mean if closing one before opening next

There is a setting in preferences if to allow more than one project at a time.
Then current project is replaced as another is opened.

And OP never answered how much free memory task manager show as new projects are opened(or I missed it)?
24 GB is plenty for one project, for 17 project not so much.

Behavior is typical for pagefile is starting to be swapped with physical memory, that is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllly slow.

And the advanced settings to automatically save every x changes or a time span is also under suspicion.

I am only opening one project at a time. The behavior occurs when I open the 17th or the 23rd project by itself. I have the setting in preferences set to one project at a time. I do not automatically save every x changes.

Where would I check on the pagefile setting etc?

22 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Check your plugins - it could be a vst. Bypass each one individually and check if it still happens. 

Also check if the project you open are not linked to a second project that might be hanging open and "Saved As."

I had this rare issue last year sometime.  I had two projects open and every 30 mins or so, I would flip between the two, to make the deadline. Somehow, they got linked and saved as such.  

I had to go through 20 saved versions to fix this issue. It took me a while to figure this out. Thought-oh-no! Project lost. 

If you have different copies of the same project - open the from the project folder and see if the problem still persist. 

I will work on the checking the VST's. Thanks for the suggestion. Not sure how I would check to see if a project is linked to another. Can you point me there?

By the way I can STOP the behavior by running Cakewalk without connection to my Tascam 20X20 USB, or by connecting the Tascam to USB2.0 port.

Did I mention that none of this happens on my Lenovo Thinkpad i7 16Gig Ram 2X Samsung 860 EVO SSD's, Same Tascam connected to USB3.0 port, Same Version of WIn 10 64bit.

I am focused on the USB3.0 ports of my desktop for now. Pondering an add-on USB3.0 card to try instead of the motherboard ports.

Keep those thoughts coming, I will check them all as time permits. Many thanks:

Here is the latest observation: This does not occur when connected to USB2.0 port.

UPDATE: This problem seems to be related to my Tascam USB20X20 USB 3.0 interface. Updated driver: No luck Disabled ports on motherboard and installed new USB3.1 card: No luck. I am close but just can't pin it down yet. Any suggestions appreciated.

Uninstalled Cakewalk and reinstalled latest version. NO CHANGE! Again (Not Responding) on the 17th file. 

UPDATE: Laptop Lenovo T530 does not exhibit the behavior. FYI.......checked on all the settings for a system running SSD drives. A couple of changes there , but nothing that corrects the problem. Going to try the "clean boot next". What a pain this small thig has become. THanks for the help and support.

Memory Test Shows no issues. File count before problem has now changed to "23" projects. S.M.A.R.T. hd tests show no errors! Open to anything else to test or try.

Thanks for the help again ! 

Interesting that you are thinking iffy HD. I just upgraded to Samsung 860 SSD's for both of my drives because I felt my 10 year old WD 7200 rpm was going soft. I need to see if I can duplicate this issue with my laptop that is very close in spec to my desktop.

Thanks for the help so far.

Yes I am using 2 displays. Not sure where you are suggesting I look for RAM usage. Can you be more specific for Win 10 Ver 1909 64 bit?

I know this post will seem too strange to be credible, but I have verified it many times over the last week.

I have been editing my entire project library to modify screensets and a few other minor settings. This is 1000's of projects.

They are MIDI only for the most part.

I began to find that every so many files, Cakewalk would begin to "buffer" and display "Not Responding" in the title bar. This would resolve itself after several seconds and would repeat after each new "mouse click" until the project was saved. The behavior would continue for each successive project. Only by restarting the computer would Cakewalk return to "normal" behavior. Restarting Cakewalk would not correct the problem, only restarting the computer. Next, I began counting the number of projects that I could work on before the behavior would return. I expected this to be random but was surprised to find that in fact it could be relied upon to appear every 17 project files loaded.

I have no clue what to investigate next ! Open to all suggestions. Happy to try anything to resolve this.

My next thought is a "Bad RAM stick". Don't want to mess under the hood unless others think it is worth the effort.

Thanks for any input!

Also notice that Playlist window sizing will not allow stretching to bottom when using fullscreen without jumping to top of screen. Does not maintain location when moving from full screen to normal display size.

After further investigation:

 A project that contains a loop that is saved in the "ON" state will load by itself in the "On" state. The same project when loaded from the playlist will load with the Loop function in the "Off" state and "crash/end" playback at the end of the loop marker.  

Just noticed this today as I have very few files that use the "Loop" function. Project will only play until end of loop and then stops abruptly to load and play next project. 

Currently running Ver 2020.11 and love it !

Audio Clicks SOLVED!

I was pursuing a problem where changing "Screensets" during playback of MIDI only project would stumble playback.  I was checking my "Preferences_ Configuration File " settings and decided to try changing the "Properties" Thread Scheduling Model to see what effect if any occurred. The setting when I opened the window was "2".

I lowered the demand to a setting of "1" and my Screenset issues was resolved. 

It has been so long that I have been putting up with the Audio Click when opening and closing projects that it took about 15 minutes before I realized that it was no longer happening.  

Hope that this helps someone else who might be looking to resolve this minor but very annoying behavior.

Cakewalk is still the best for me after 30 years.

Thank yo to all for the input.......I will investigate and report any positive result.

I just installed the latest update to Win 10 and replaced my firewire interface with the Tascam USB20X20 USB 3 interface. I am hearing a single audio click as each Project loads or closes. Any suggestions would be appreciated. ( Changing Buffers setting does not affect the problem)

Playlist Enhancements??

Since I started the discussion of The Playlist troubles, first let me say thanks for the attention. Some issues are greatly improved. There are a few "strange behaviors that I am trying to sort out to report in a coherent way. More on them in a later post for sure.

My major complaint was the way that CW did not discard changes to projects and close the project after playback. This seems to have been successfully addressed. I am very grateful for this fix as it has been and issue that I reported for many years.

I also reported an issues with the displaying of "Lyric" windows on extended desktop displays. Currently the "lyrics" do display properly on the extended monitor, BUT......

After the first project  finishes playback, lyric windows that are also displayed on the primary monitor are "closed" and not displayed. ( I usually display lyrics on both monitors....sometimes as a second instance of the lyrics of the same track and sometimes lyrics from a completely different track) I can send sample files if helpful.

I am also experiencing Audio Engine Dropouts which has not been a problem before this Early release????? More on that as I can spend time to experiment.

One way of using the Playlist that I have found helpful in live performance is to leave the Playlist "disabled" and load projects from the list manually in random order as I see fit. This will also leave the projects open and stacking up until resources are used up and a CRASH will occur. I feel that projects should also close and the end of playback even when the Playlist is not "Enabled". , but is open....... This of course may conflict with the Edit->Preferences-> File->Advanced->Allow Only One Open Project At A Time setting.

I am exploring strange behaviors when a playlist is enabled, and the user decides to select a different "Next" file from the list. Audio engine dropouts and other issues seem to randomly occur.... hope to have more on that later..........

Again sincerest thanks for the improvements so far.

Regards,

34 minutes ago, Ben Staton said:

Thanks for your feedback.
I've already fixed one of the issues described in the OP, and another is in the works.
Look out for fixes in the next release, or consider participating in the Early Access Program if you want to try it out sooner (release dates tbc).

Ben,

Thanks for the reply and  FIX ! Couldn't be more excited to try the Early Release version when posted. I was a beta tester for the Cakewalk Pro Audio Version 5 & 6 cycles  back in the day. Always happy help out and have more time now that I am retired from my "day job". Regards to the 'Bakers'. I appreciate their commitment to Cakewalk all these years.

P.S.

What is "OP"?

Regards,

Roger

On 8/12/2019 at 8:02 PM, Lombardi said:

Hey Roger,

 

Thanks so much for raising this topic again.  I completely agree with your assessment of the Playlist feature.  I too have been a faithful Cakewalk customer since DOS days, and I've got you beat by two years (69) as someone still using Cakewalk exclusively for my studio and live performances.  I actually bailed on the playlist even before Sonar 1 because of it's quirkiness and lack of attention.   Sadly enough, I have been using "Virtual Jukebox" from Cakewalk 9 as my goto for live playback of Cakewalk files.  It's not pretty, and certainly limited, and until recently it required me to keep an old computer with WinXp running so I could use it on the gig.  I managed to install Cakewalk 9 on a 64bit Win 10 machine using the compatabilty mode and the Virtual Jukebox function works! That barebones program uses very little real estate on the screen and allows you to jump around fairly easily.   Unfortunately, every song for live use that I have recorded since Sonar thru Cakewalk by Bandlab, has had to be mixed down, exported as  .wav files, inserted into Cakewalk 9, saved as a .wrk  file before I can use it in the Virtual Jukebox app.  PITA!!!  I absolutely agree that the Playlist could be such a great feature to an already great program.   With the ability to play audio and midi data simultaneously, and add vst and vsti configurations and routing with each song, it could easily compete with Logic's Main Stage on the Mac, or Cantibile, or Abelton Live for that matter.   It seems Cakewalk has no interest in people who want to use their product on stage, and not just in the studio.  What a shame, seems like a market that would have some value.  I have asked for this many times in the past and would be thrilled if they even made an attempt to clean up what they already have, let alone make it better.   Come on Noel, cut us seniors some slack here!!!

Thanks

Bill Lombardi

 

Bill,

Just wanted to thank you for your very supportive post ! Fingers crossed!!

Roger

11 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

What if we never modified the project while playing from within a playlist? Would this solve the issue for you?

Noel, thank you for the response. I believe this would likely solve the problem for me. I have taken great pains to make sure that my projects do  not "modify"so as to use the "Playlist" at all. Unfortunately this is not always possible to achieve. I would be most grateful if this was corrected. 

Also recently reported:

Please be aware that the current release does not manage project layouts correctly on extended (dual display) monitor setups when the Playlist is "Enabled".

My 'lyric' windows that are set to appear on the extended monitor do not appear in "maximized" mode. (Full screen) They are correct when "Playlist" is disabled and project is loaded, but quickly shrink (minimize) when "Enabled" and playback begins. This behavior has appeared in previous versions and been corrected before.

Thank you in advance for any attention to these issues. I believe, as others have stated, that Cakewalk is the best, most flexible DAW for live performers absent the fact that the Playlist is plagued with so many "bugs". I'm sure that there are additional "wish list" items for the Playlist from myself and others, but for now it would be awesome to have these item fixed so I can suggest Cakewalk again to all my fellow "Live" performers.

Grateful for your time!

Roger Cousins

Thanks to everyone in development team for the continued feature additions and progress with Cakewalk.

The Playlist however has been sorely neglected IMHO. There are reported issues that have been ignored for many years.

It was great to see the 150+ bug fixes in the last release, but very disappointing to once again find the Playlist not on the list of items getting attention.

Here is the Oldest "Bug" I know of AGAIN!

With Playlist "Enabled":

Begin playback of a Set List of at least 4 projects.

During playback "Mute" and "Unmute" any track. The purpose here is to create one of many scenarios that could cause the (*) asterisk to appear after the project title. This of course indicates that the project has been edited in some way.

After the project has completed playing and the "Next" project is under way: Select the "Window" drop down menu.

You will now see the the 1st project is still open. This behavior will continue until many projects are left open and the computer runs out of resources and CRASHES!

Projects should close after playing regardless of changes to the project without saving any changes to the project.

The last time that I know of ( this is a long time ago-memory?) that this behavior did not exist is Sonar 1. The playlist was then removed in Sonar 2 and inserted again with Sonar 3 and the bug described. 

IN the current release 2019.07 this behavior persists as well as:

Lyrics window placed on extended screen does not display as "Full Screen" when Playlist is "Enabled"

These behaviors leave me only able to use the Playlist as a way to "select projects" and to load and play one at a time. Better than searching directories for projects for sure but not the way the Playlist used to function. I have been a user since the DOS versions and Cakewalk Live were all the rage. and worked well I might add. 

Cakewalk has been my choice forever because it was and remains the only DAW with the Playlist feature that IMHO is (when working properly)  is the best concept for this feature for the "live' preforming musician. Sorry to say that I know many "live" performers who have abandoned Cakewalk because of the endless problems with thsi feature and the complete lack of attention to the issues.

I have reported these problems by forum, by phone, chat, demonstrated them with remote desktop sessions and still nothing has been corrected.

On a personal level, I started with Cakewalk in my late 30's. At age 67, I am still using it exclusively. I would really appreciate a version with the Playlist behaving correctly before I am either too old to perform or no longer drawing breath!

Can anyone there please give this some attention! A great product needs to be better than the Playlist  feature is at this point!

I am here and willing to help in any way that serves this goal.

Best to All on the Programming Team,

Sincerely,

Roger Cousins