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Posts posted by Will.
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3 hours ago, chris.r said:
The sampler itself is a nice piece of software but it doesn't allow to stretch the sample across keyboard, as far as I remember. Good for creating simple drum kits though. Wondering if the tighter integration with Reaper does allow for swapping the samples on the fly while playback is running?
Exactly why I chose to mention it in my OP. Cakewalk could then fuse with Loop Construction with it.
But if theres a new release dropping soon with this included it wont be necessary to add features - it can just be intergrated.
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10 hours ago, Scott Wheeler said:
While that's something that we're definitely open to (and say so explicitly on our website), there's also a middle path: in a release that's coming out in a couple of days we've got tighter integration specifically with Reaper, and that's something that we're very open to expanding out to other DAWs.
If there are any Cakewalk developers that happen to be reading this and find it interesting, please get in touch with us at info@decomposer.de. We've got an API that we're planning on opening soon that will make it possible for other hosts to integrate more deeply to Sitala (or any other plugin -- we're planning on open sourcing the code) that papers over a lot of the shortcomings of the VST format.
@Noel Borthwick Would you be interested in reaching out?
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On 12/2/2020 at 9:36 PM, Rfcousins said:
Here is the latest observation: This does not occur when connected to USB2.0 port.
It this doesn't happen on USB 2.0 ports - That means you're using the USB2.0 cables. Double check and make sure you're using the USB 3.0 cables for 3.0 ports that came with it.
Tascam USB20X20 USB3.0 comes with both USB3.0 cables and USB2.0 cables.
Also check if you dont have a forgotten Asio4All drivers installed on you system still.
Both my Scarlett and Twin had problems having both interface drivers and Asio4All drivers on the system.
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30 minutes ago, gmp said:
I'm not wanting him to get separate wav files from a zip file, I wanted to send him 1 file like a ISO that he could easily burn an exact copy of the audio test CD from the upload I did to the CD duplicator
7-zip can help with this.
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1 hour ago, Teegarden said:
Seems to me that it might address many of the discussed issues in this topic
This is lost in argument.
I don't even know what my original question was anymore.
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1 hour ago, LarsF said:
Hmmm....somebody correct me if I am wrong....
Whatever headroom there is I assume is adjusted for from start of a daw project. If you have +6 dB headroom, you from start adjusted down all levels 6 dB from start, or you would have nowhere to go when boosting. 0 dBFs is ceiling in the end, now adjusted to be -6 dBFs.
From 0db up to the highest DB on the meter reading. In cakewalk this goes up to 6db - that's your headroom.
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2 hours ago, Lord Tim said:
Had a bit of time before a session tonight and I did a quick test.
NOTE: CbB Pan Law set to 0dB center, sin/cos taper, constant power. Internally I'm using 24 bit depth, not 32 bit or 64 bit double precision.
First we'll do some Self-null tests to ensure CbB isn't creating inconsistent results that don't null with itself, just as a control.
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CbB Self-null test 1:
Input files:
1KHz Sine - 24 bit, 44.1KHz stereo
White Noise - 24 bit, 44.1KHz stereo
Sine Sweep - 24 bit, 44.1KHz stereo
Drum Loop - 24 bit, 44.1KHz stereoOutput:
24 bit, 44.1KHz stereo files, all exported seprately.
Reimported back into CbB along with the original input file and the phase invertedResults:
All files entirely nulled to silence.----------------
CbB Self-null test 2:
Input files (all 24 bit, 44.1Khz mono):
Kick
Ride
Snare
Bass
HatsVolume for each track set to -6db. Panning set to center.
Output: 24 bit, 44.1Khz stereo mixdown
Reimported this file, inverted the phase of this new trackResults:
Output meter showed -136dB maximum, or practically inaudible difference. I would expect that to be lower or 100% using 32 or 64 internal bit depth.----------------
CbB Self-null test 3:
Input files (all 24 bit, 44.1Khz mono):
Kick (panned center)
Ride (panned 100% L)
Snare (panned 50% R)
Bass (panned 50% L)
Hats (panned 100% R)Volume for each track set to -6db. Panning as above.
Output: 24 bit, 44.1Khz stereo mixdown
Reimported this file, inverted the phase of this new trackResults:
Output meter showed -136dB maximum, or practically inaudible difference. I would expect that to be lower or 100% using 32 or 64 internal bit depth.----------------
CbB Self-null test 4:
Exactly the same setup as test 3, except MCharmVerb was in the FX bin on the kick and snare tracks with the same settings (see attached pic for settings).
Output: 24 bit, 44.1Khz stereo mixdown
Reimported this file, inverted the phase of this new trackResults:
Output meter showed -136dB maximum, or practically inaudible difference. I would expect that to be lower or 100% using 32 or 64 internal bit depth.----------------
CONCLUSION:
CbB completely nulls with itself for all intents and purposes - as expected - even with MCharmVerb and panning applied.
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REAPER vs CbB Null test 1:
Input files:
1KHz Sine - 24 bit, 44.1KHz stereo
White Noise - 24 bit, 44.1KHz stereo
Sine Sweep - 24 bit, 44.1KHz stereo
Drum Loop - 24 bit, 44.1KHz stereoOutput:
24 bit, 44.1KHz stereo files, all exported seprately.Imported the CbB exports from CbB Test 1 for each respective file and inverted the phase.
Results:
All files nulled to silence.----------------
REAPER vs CbB Null test 2:
Repeated CbB test 2 but inside REAPER, same source files, same settings.
Output: 24 bit, 44.1Khz stereo mixdown
Imported the CbB export from CbB Test 2 and inverted the phase.
Results: Output nulled to -48dB maximum. Not completely silent, but close to silent in a real-world situation. I would suggest this is due to rounding differences with the 24 bit file and the internal bit depth of REAPER mixing engine.
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REAPER vs CbB Null test 3:
Repeated CbB test 3 but inside REAPER, same source files, same settings.
Output: 24 bit, 44.1Khz stereo mixdown
Imported the CbB export from CbB Test 3 and inverted the phase.
Results: Tracks panned away from center did NOT null with the default REAPER settings. Overriding the project defaults for each track to dual mono reduced the difference by 6db but the files did not entirely null, and no settings would achieve this.
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REAPER vs CbB Null test 4:
Repeated CbB test 4 but inside REAPER, same source files, same settings.
Output: 24 bit, 44.1Khz stereo mixdown
Imported the CbB export from CbB Test 4 and inverted the phase.
Results: Obviously this will not null as per Test 3 because the panned tracks weren't correctly nulling due to the differing pan laws. Reverb decay did not null on the stereo sides, in a similar way to regular tracks panned off center did not null.
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CONCLUSION:
When tracks are panned center CbB nulls either completely or very close to 100% with REAPER. The minor difference betwen multitrack mixes can be down to rounding (ie: the exported files were 24 bit / 44.1Khz vs an internal 32 bit or 64 bit mixing engine, so the more tracks imported, the more there will be differences as they're mixed together). In modern pop/rock/metal/hiphop/etc music, apart from very quiet sections or the end of reverb tails, in real-world use, this is going to be practically inaudible.
When tracks are panned off-center, the results don't null for any tracks not panned to center. This is due to differing pan laws. This will be audible for those tracks only, even in a modern mix, and can be compensated to match by raising or lowering the track volume.
When there are stereo effects added, the results don't null for the amount of sound on the stereo part of the material. For time based effects, this can make the tails seem either louder or quieter depending on the settings and the width of the effect, and will definitely be audible in a modern mix.
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Bonus test:
Importing the exports from CbB and REAPER into Adobe Audition matched the results seen above.
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My take?
I stand by what I said about pan laws being the biggest difference between how these DAWs sound. That doesn't make either one sound better, but just slightly different. The more tracks, the more stuff is panned, the more differences there will be. If I had more time I would repeat this with 64 bit settings to rule out rounding errors with the 24 bit stuff I was using, so don't take this as anything like a definitive scientific test. I'm sure others here could do it better.
Ultimately, if you're finding that one DAW is dramatically better than the other then more power to you - use that DAW. If having slightly louder reverbs and some tracks a little differently balanced in REAPER when you're doing an exact apples to apples comparison with CbB, you'd probably get more benefit by actually listening to what you're mixing rather than comparing the differences between each DAW. Can you hear that -50dB track difference? I doubt it. Is a slightly louder reverb going to sound different? Sure. Will that negatively impact your mix? If it does, perhaps practicing mixing more than splitting hairs might be a good option.
Reverb settings as used above:
I dont know.
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2 hours ago, Maestro said:
In the past, it was common that some DAWs sounded difference because the audio engines were, then, less developed. Some DAWs (like Samplitude, for example) were far more advanced than others (like Pro Tools, for example) in that area. But, times have changed, and there is relative parity there, except - aforementioned - in cases where the DAWs use a processing chain designed to deliver a specific sound character.
And B.I.N.G.O just came out to play.
This is it.
You've answer my arguement. This was the first thing that came to mind days before I entered this forum. Which i've said/asked many time in my replies.
Gibson might have never worked on this - "This" being the processing chain signal coding on their mix engine.
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1 hour ago, Maestro said:
This argument about DAWs sounding different needs to die.
But here is the thing. I never said The "DAW's" sound different - all I asked was why are these plugins more sensitive with their settings in Reaper. Go read read my first Post
The reverb sounded more darker projecting a "fuller" sound - in Cakewalk there's a roll-off in the low end of the reverb and boost in highend giving it a thinner-but-shimmering "aka" gloss/air sound to it. Compression are more sensitive.
So basically what I'm asking, is - Does this have to do with the headroom differences between the two? Cakewalk db boost goes up to +6db, where reaper is at 12db boost.
My question never reflected on a which daw is better. I keep saying Cakewalk was the DAW I learned on at varsity with Avid.
At the time Cakewalk made Waves above Avid in professional studio's. 2008/09. I remember receiving articles on this because of it being Strictly Digital Based - if my memory serves me right it was with Sonar Studio or Producer 8.5. Then came x1, but studio's moved away when x2 introduced the many Audio Dropouts.
So why would I start a DAW war when it's my Go-To DAW. If the Mix engine are still Digital based - than obviously things will be unique in their own way. Though, I cannot ignore the fact that hearing is in fact true. My ears don't lie 😂
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3 minutes ago, azslow3 said:
You need to match the input first. As I have mentioned already, that is not easy.
Yep. I always do this.
5 minutes ago, azslow3 said:audio sample size used for processing. Check both DAWs are in 64bit processing (sample size as floating point, not program code) mode.
😅 I've checked for these too. I have my fair share of knowledge.
Try it yourself.
Write down the level the moment you hear the threshold work in cakewalk and do the same in reaper.
Free Compressor I've tested with
https://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-feedback-compressor-2/
Free reverb I tested with.
http://www.lesliesanford.com/vst/plugins/
And . . .
https://u-he.com/products/protoverb/
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33 minutes ago, LarsF said:
From StudioOne manual
"Studio One uses a -3 dB pan law for all channel panning. On stereo Channels, the panner adjusts the balance of left and right signal
levels."so if setting 0dB center in Cakewalk there is the difference - on track out - on send level.
There are pans on sends as well.
Well aware of that, Thanks. "PAN LAW."
Now onwards to why the same reverb sounds fuller in reaper and thinner/sharper less analogue in CbB.
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3 minutes ago, LarsF said:
Over the years there has been floods of threads stating that one daw sound better than the other
No one said reaper or studio one sounds better than Cakewalk. I'm talking about plugins - don't mix the two.
When someone talks about DAWs sounding different, I immediately think of Audio quality when recording or using a samples.
If someone tells me plugins are more sensitive and sound different in this daw - I immediately think of headroom space.
Dont turn this discussion in to a "DAW War" thread - cause this is clearly not what this is about.
If cakewalk's mix-engines (not playback engines) are still strictly digital signal based from the 90's it's signal based.
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22 minutes ago, gmp said:
I sent him the wav files with wetransfer and walked him through the upload and he burned the test CD. I'm surprised there's no ISO type file for audio CDs. DDP is what the duplicator uses, but they didn't have any solutions for getting the client a file to burn the test CD
We do this with "7-Zip." We zip the files in 3 folders - with each subfolder "zipped."
To help you understand.
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2 minutes ago, LarsF said:
That is to do with pan laws, some daws have center -3dB - so there you have it.
Choose pan law to liking in Cakewalk and it will be the same.
StudioOne does not even have a setting for pan laws, you have to use some special plugin for that to deviate from default.
Mine is true 0 balance. Also "Panning" laws and Send Levels are two different things.
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2 hours ago, Maestro said:
As for things "sounding way more fuller" in one DAW or another, one has to factor in Confirmation Bias and Placebo Effect.
Really now? You're going there?
If there's a noticeable difference in other daws with effects - theres a noticeable difference! They sound fuller - point! NO ARGUMENT THERE!
No one spoke of using stock plugins with this. The only "Bias" person with the "Placebo effect" here, is you with your response. Everyone else are discussing this with an open mind going through the history of cakewalk. Cause the way these MeldaProduction plugins sounds in Reaper and Studio One are the same and fuller than what it sounds in Cakewalk.
I've tried different other plugins too.
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2 hours ago, chris.r said:
Did you check that your ProChannel is off?
Yep.
I'm gona give it straight. I've reset my entire configuration setting to default the third time. Different genre's same results with Reaper. Tried the laptop same results. Distortion are too more mouth watering in reaper.
Demo'ing Studio One now and again results are different - fuller and more natural sound with effects.
Next up will be my free Ableton that came with the interface.
I also want to make something clear. I'm not doing this to make CbB seems bad - OH-NO! Cakewalk is rock solid! I just happened to test out Reaper - seeing that it has a free license until end of febuary and started noticing the difference.
In CbB when sending an effect to an Aux or Bus there's that added +3db on effects. This is not so in these two DAWS I'm testing. What you send to a BUS is what you get out - which I miss, but the sound of the effects are way fuller than what it sounds in CbB and it's this "fuller more natural sound" that's bugging me and that caught me attention.
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5 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:
Would be nice if the steps were user definable
1.5db is pretty coarse...0.1db...well who can tell the difference ?
Personally I would be happy if I could change the default to 0.25 db and the shifted version was bigger, say 1db
There's more control with 0.1db and you can really tell the difference immediately.
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1 hour ago, Rfcousins said:
I have the setting in preferences set to one project at a time. I do not automatically save every x changes.
Has this always been a default setting for you - OR - have you changed it recently?
1 hour ago, Rfcousins said:Not sure how I would check to see if a project is linked to another. Can you point me there?
Do you know how to find your Project folders in Windows?
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3 hours ago, mdiemer said:
I have always heard that all DAWS do everything the same, and there can be no difference in sound between them. then how to account for what I experienced?
Yeah. Was taught this in class 12 years ago.
Seems like cakewalk still project a digital signal based sound.
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5 hours ago, Lord Tim said:
Do a null test with straight audio, and the pan laws set the same. If it sounds different, then one of the DAWs is broken. Algorithmic or evolving effects won't cancel entirely, but it'll be close enough to tell it's nulling out.
Did everything. Cakewalk is broken 😂😂
Jokes aside - Compression are more sensitive. I immediately hear the attack, release and threshold work, as soon as I touch it them in reaper. In Cakewalk with the same piano and chords - it's a bit higher up.
Reverb sounds fuller in Reaper and more thinner, but kind of "Shimmering" in CbB.
Same bars and plugin setting, after exporting the test - and I find myself enjoying the sound reaper gives - though it took me 100 times longer. Routing things are weird in reaper. 😕
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I've been using reaper almost a month now with it's free license and I'm thinking of investing in it. Before I do, I need confirmation on something.
I've been using Cakewalk close to 12 years. Huge fan of it - it's my go to DAW.
Question:
Am I mistakenly to find that Reaper projects the sound differently than Cakewalk? My plugins sounds way fuller in Reaper. I really don't know how to explain it - but have anyone experience something like this? I hear compression better, the plugins are more sensitive there as what it is in CbB. The same with a Reverb - it sounds more true and natural than what it does in CbB. This is the same for every plugin.
I use the same plugins in both and in CbB and there's a highly noticeable difference.
Plugs I use everyday: MFreeFXBundle from MeldaProduction.
If this is true . . . We need Cakewalk up there.
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On 11/3/2020 at 9:27 AM, Craig Anderton said:
I've used both Sonar and Studio One since version 1.0. The reason why was mastering in Studio One, multitrack in Sonar.
Over the years I realized I could do most of the work in Sonar, then export what I had done as tracks that I could then import into Studio One. So, I could take advantage of Studio One's Song page/Mastering page synergy . As I mastered, if I needed to make tweaks, I didn't have to go back into Sonar, do another mix, export the mix, etc. I could make the tweaks on the Sonar-generated tracks in Studio One, and bounce over to Studio One's mastering page.
This was an incredibly efficient workflow that took advantage of what both programs had to offer. In those days, Sonar was IMHO a better mixing environment than Studio One and handled MIDI better, but Studio One had better mastering, analytics, and export functions (like DDP for CD duplication houses).
I did the same thing with Ableton Live. Do live sets in Live, record them, then import into Studio One for mastering.
The point is there are many ways to approach solutions. To think that "one DAW rules them all" can prevent you from seeing the solution that's going to work best for you. Admittedly, I've been doing this a long time, so it's clear to me what I need to do, and which tools are best to do what's needed for me. At the moment, most of my work is in Studio One because it has particular features that I find essential - but those same features might be irrelevant to other people.
As to Cakewalk vs. Reaper, either one will let you make music. The limiting factor will always be the musician's talent, not the program. That said, because I want to know how to pilot a session with any DAW for professional reasons, I've tried Reaper several times. It never quite did it for me, it always seemed to be missing some crucial feature - eventually it would get that feature, but then other programs would have also progressed and leapfrogged ahead of it. I certainly found Cakewalk a far more comfortable, and useful, environment than Reaper. And now, Cakewalk's free. I don't see it as a difficult choice.
This is true.
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Thanks Scook.
This Shortcut need to added in the documentation/PDF reference. Cant find it there.
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Hey bakers and members.
Kindly requesting to increase OR decrease the value of the volume fader with the mouse wheel by a 0.1db in both Console and Track View, please.
Right now, it does so by a value of 1.5db which is not a problem (you can click drag or type in the value,) but speed and flexibility are crucial these days in production.
How Can This Be Happening???????
in Cakewalk by BandLab
Posted · Edited by Will_Kaydo
There you have it.
USB 2.0 cable goes in 2.0 USB port
And . . .
USB 3.0 cable goes in 3.0 USB ports. (Requires Windows 10.) Have you tried to update you ports drivers on windows 10?
Read here:
https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/how-do-i-update-my-pcs-usb-3-0-chipset-drivers/
Also:
https://tascam.com/us/product/us-20x20/feature