Will.

20 minutes ago, Max Arwood said:

It has never done this before. 

I have had this happen multiple times. First make sure your Automatic Save projects is turned off. Secondly: The fix is to redirect your project to the folder. 

In your case, its not an error. You have a duplicate project open that wants to resave the same project. 

6 hours ago, Craig Anderton said:

The Studio One contingent at PreSonus was pretty freaked out when it appeared Cakewalk was headed to extinction.

I know why. Because they wouldnt have had another forum to spy on for new ideas and features to steal. 🥴🤣🤣🤣

3 hours ago, Milton Sica said:

, but then what would be the point of bringing an EA for the community to test if not to verify it? developers to fix bugs?

The reason was to fix previous issues/bugs users had in the DAW. This was also to help and give users some time to transition over to the new affordable paid version of Sonar. This new EA are not running on the old servers as what the others have - hence the long wait for this years release. 

On 9/10/2023 at 1:00 AM, arvmetal said:

Pretty crappy update, is unusable, as I open any plugin starts to flickering and slows down my PC. Does anyone know how can I revert to the old version without uninstalling?.

Well, dont expect any update and bug fixes for this version. It is sadly in the process to collect its 401k. An early retirement. 

2 hours ago, Keni said:

I'm not sure this is a bug or a glitch of some kind, but I just experienced this...

 

In PRV with the Track View open and a few tracks being displayed.

If I solo a midi track it correctly solos the midi track and the audio track containing the synth being used.

But the solo button in the Track View of the PRV only shows the MIDI track in solo until I allow the mouse to passover the audio track's solo button which then correctly displays the solo status.

 

In the Regular Track View, All is well... It's only in the PRV display's Track View

 

Do you have a personal theme? 

First of all you guys are overthinking this way too much. Secondly: No one is driving me "bonkers." 

1 hour ago, JohnnyV said:

Then I froze the SI Bass track and the resulting  Mono wave file now plays at -3.7 db. Interesting. 

That makes it not an accurate mono insert. 

1 hour ago, JohnnyV said:

 

but I think what you are saying is you are inserting an Split Instrument track 

Not even close to what I was doing or saying. 🤦🏻‍♂️

Okay, John. Do this (which is exactly what i am saying.) 

Insert a synth, go to the Track Tab in the TV, Select bounce to Track and Split the Channel Format to "Spilt to Mono." Delete the right track which was created, pan it back to center and do your with plugins too. You will find that no 3db will be added. 

That is how synth track should be handled under the hood. 

And yes, right now with how it works when toggling the interleave - the mono synth sits within a stereo track that is why the 3dB gets added. 

Pitty CbB will be discontinued though. I am looking forward to Sonar and next to test and try out though. 

2 hours ago, Xoo said:

How does Cakewlak/Sonar know it's mono?

A stereo track is essentially two mono tracks/channels that are panned hard Left & Right on one track. So by removing either one of the channels you get a true mono track. 

1 hour ago, Xoo said:

My examples could easily be from a soft-synth so the same logic applies - throwing away one channel is (potentially) bad.

How is throwing away one channel of a mono synth in a stereo format track bad, when it give the channel a true mono insert? If i wanted a stereo synth, I would use a stereo synth - come on now. 🤣

Just now, Jacques Boileau said:

but lately I have seen companies making public betas open to everyone. But that is a newer trend.

Bingo! 

3 hours ago, Xoo said:

There's only the increase if there's a correlated signal in both channels.  Take a contrived example where the left channel is a sine wave and the right channel is the same sine wave phase shifted by 180 degrees.  Sum them to mono and you get no signal.

In a more real-world example, suppose you have a stereo track containing something like a string quartet, quite heavily panned.  Throwing one side away would be significantly worse than adding a 3dB gain as you'd actually lose information (instruments).  The extreme example would be a stereo signal with silence in the left channel and something (anything!) in the right.  Collapsing in your way would lead to silence which is obviously incorrect.

That said, the 3dB gain is potentially a problem, so surely the better thing to do would be to add a "hidden" 3dB attenuation when you set the interleave of a genuine stereo track to mono?

We are not talking about stereo tracks. We're talking about MONO INSTRUMENT INSERT TRACKS that sits in (on) a stereo enviroment (track.) 

This is clearly demonstrated in the videos above - a mono insert with mono information that still gains a 3dB increase when you collapse the channels. Where a true mono track are being demonstrated in video 2 with no boost even when the channel formats are being collapsed to one mono interleave/track/strip. 

5 hours ago, Byron Dickens said:

You know this "recent update" is a beta, right?

Management said its not a beta 🤷🏻‍♂️

5 hours ago, T Boog said:

Hey John, I actually had a problem with the recent update and I had to reinstall the previous version. Do u think this previous version will remain active for a while or will I have to update? Thanks

You only have 6months available to use it with that activation. All previous versions are no longer being maintained. The latest version is kind of just taking a joy ride running on their new servers as mentioned. 

Sad news for the CbB product. 

11 minutes ago, JohnnyV said:

Ah! good question but remember, X3 is the last version of Sonar that can be activated totally off line without a server.

Bandlab has no obligation to offer the older Buggy version for download anymore. 

But I was guessing wrong about the continuation of CbB read this from another thread: 

Noel Borthwick: 

To be clear, there will be no more feature updates or bug fixes to the CbB codebase. 
The only reason it's being kept active for now is to provide users time to transition to the upcoming (paid) Sonar product. 
If you do intend to use Cakewalk please consider moving to Sonar (when its available obviously). We also plan on having a public beta release for it soon once the user interface is complete, so you can make up your mind. There is no change from the workflow of Cbb so the transition should be effortless.

If you have requests or bug reports continue to post them but they will only be fixed in the new Sonar release.

 

Yeah! This was a slap in the face. I still feel it, because its not what was said by other staff members, or in the EA release notes on the site. It kind of makes you negative to hear this- well, it stopped me from carrying on with what I was mixing and testing. 

27 minutes ago, Bass Guitar said:

Ok I see what you are doing. 

But here's a ponder then. I hope this is still on topic.  You are using a synth for the demo, synths are all stereo, right? But I use mono audio tracks which I think are truly mono. They only become stereo if you add an effect that generates stereo out put? Correct? I only use the pro channel EQ and the PC2A compressor on audio tracks.  Do they become stereo?  good question.  If I add effects I will do this with a send to a bus. Another pondering question, do they send a stereo signal from a mono source?    I have actually never noticed the interleave icon before. 

And so that was why I was wondering about your issue which I see is a legit issue but possibly only for a very few users. Seems like the boss was sort of ignoring your request anyhoo,  but he did just say a few things I'll add to my list of what is going to happen sometime soon with CbB. 

If you have information on both L&R channel even if the data on this track is "true MONO" collapsing this to a single channel format (Mono track) will add that 3db increase in gain. 

You do get mono synths. I have a few. Its because of them, i started noticing this issue in CbB. So, my workaround was always to get the melody first and split the channels to get a perfect unaltered true "Mono track" before I start mixing. 

So, whatever i throw on this tracks stays the same volume even if i toggle the interleave between mono and stereo, because theres no second channel to collapse to. This leaves the track in true mono format. 

Current mono inserts with instrument interleave. 

How CbB/Sonar should handle mono inserts with interleave. 

The second track in the video is the same track, but was split and bounced to two mono tracks with the right channel deleted and the left channel panned back to dead center. So what i was asking is, cant we let Sonar and Next handle its mono and stereo tracks separate from one another? Meaning: for them to split the channel format under the hood to create a mono track with only the left channel for both Audio and Instrument tracks. This leads to no increase in volume keeping this balanced. 

😩 I hope presonus dont steal this idea first. 🤦🏻‍♂️ 

1 minute ago, Noel Borthwick said:

I'm not sure what you mean by carried over. 

The discussion of how instrument per track output handles its Mono inserts. 

Right now it collapse both channels to one mono track which adds that 3db gain in volume as oppose to just splitting the instrument track to create a dead balance volume with no gain increase on the track. 

Think of the Bounce To Track window where you can Split the channel format to you get both L&R channels when you press OK.  So cant we have Sonar to split the instrument track insert of its stereo interleave to get a mono insert by splitting the channels under the hood and deleting the Right channel when creating the mono interleave. 

9 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

There is no change from the workflow of Cbb so the transition should be effortless.

So will this be carried over into Sonar? Cause it does eat up precious headroom. 

1 hour ago, Bass Guitar said:

Sorry I still don't understand 100% and that's all good because I probably don't need to understand it all!  And honestly I tried,  What you are talking about is performing tasks I have never had to utilize.  I mostly record our band live just to mess around with stuff but I am also trying to put down a few of my own original songs so that takes me a little deeper. I'm learning. And I'm finding there's a lot to learn just cruising this forum from time to time. I've read a lot of your posts and you seem like a pretty helpful person so sorry if I seemed like I was arguing or something, no, just trying to learn something new. Thanks. 

Everything is all good and well, i honestly didnt think you were trying to argue. I'm gona try and explain this again, because i really do want you to be onboard with this. So I will attach videos. 

3 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

I seem to recall EA releases being advertised in the toast before though. Was this not always the case? 🤔

I've installed my EA 9mins after it was release on the site. I immediately fired up CbB, went to the HELP TAB and it couldnt find the update. There were no breakfast toast for me. 

So, i downloaded mine from the google drive given in the Link. 

No tone was brighten up here Tim. Just trying to make it as clear as possible. 

1 hour ago, Bass Guitar said:

I see the point. So what Will is actually asking for is a second option for an audio track. A pure mono track that doesn't have a pan? this seems illogical to me. Every DAW I've ever used has a Pan and every mixing board has a pan.

And are you guys saying that if I record my Bass track at -10 db as a mono audio track and I export it as a mono stem it will be -7db? I've never noticed this happening.  

When you split a stereo track it creates two mono tracks that are panned hard Left and the second track hard Right. To phrase this better, a stereo track are two mono tracks that is panned L&R on one single channel. But we are not talking about PAN SETTINGS HERE! 

What IM SAYING, as i have said above in my previous reply so clearly is - when you record audio the INTERLEAVE STAYS STEREO, but with MONO information on it.

Is this clear to you? Good! Stay with us, cause heres the problem coming my ears and eyes tells me. 

When you mix your mono recording on a stereo interleave, CbB handles this as a stereo track when you mix. With all your plugin inserts being converted to stereo. So, if you've forgotten to change the interleave to mono when the track was created, changing it to mono later in the project adds a 3db increase to the track and mix. Are you still with me? Good! 

Now, what i am suggesting is: When you click on the interleave to set it to mono (for both audio and instrument tracks) it should than split the track into L&R and delete the right channel instead of bouncing the two channels together which creates a 3db. Are you following? 

28 minutes ago, Bass Guitar said:

I'm not following this? You go to Add track, Audio, you select the mono input like 1 of your interface,  and create a new audio track. It is most defiantly a mono track?  

You still get a stereo interleave. Which means if your switch it to mono, you get the 3db increase. 

I cant seem to recreate the issue with the nodes, but this is something that keeps happening. 

Another issue with CbB that always bothered me, was its instrument track per output inserts. When selecting the mono input for instrument tracks both L&R collapse to one channel as expected of course with the 3db increase.

This robs the user with some precious headroom on the insert with certain instruments dynamics getting squashed - it is something i have always noticed. Sometimes this is a pleasant effect, other times we do not need it. My workaround then would be to create my melody, and once im happy with it, I would split the channel format and delete the right channel and pan the Left channel back to center. Not only do i retain the original dynamics without the increase in volume - i also have a nice clean mono track. So, please bakers would it be possible for the Mono instrument insert to split the L&R channel and delete the Right one under the hood for an accurate mono channel when it is created. Let this control for inserts carry over into Next and Sonar too. 

Another plus would be to have this with the Audio tracks as well when we want to insert a mono audio track (which cant be done in CbB of course.)

10 minutes ago, Dave G said:

I'm sorry, I believe I was misunderstood.

The apps are all listed in Cakewalk Command Center. However, I'm unable to download them or obtain them anywhere. I'm kind of frustrated that I may never have these again.

Mr. Craig Anderton, are you able to help with this at all -- a link or anything? Or suggestions from anyone are welcome and needed.

Either way, I'll contact Cakewalk and see if they could help. Thanks!

You literally can get support with this at Link

6 hours ago, Tarrell Freeze said:

Would it have something to do with diff frequencies reaching the ear at diff times(after bouncing thru the house)

Wow! You are experiencing the doppler effect in your house? Thats interesting.