David Baay

11 hours ago, Nigel Simmons said:

I guess the problem lies in switching between articulations with negative delays within the same track. Maybe it's just not possible.

What's the exact scenario (i.e. what delay values, what tempo, where does the switch occur, and where are notes relative to the articulation start/end points). Maybe share a simple demo project.

I once had a project that exhibited a change in note volume related to an issue with articulation delays, but I reported it, and the problemis no longer reproducible in in the current release. Possibly you've encountered another manifestation of that problem.

19 hours ago, Tommy Byrnes said:

Nope. 2-3 seconds. I can count one Mississippe two Mississippi.

I guess it could depend on what else is going on in the project in the way of PDC and overall processing load but I definitely have not seen anything like that, even with a 2048-sample buffer at 48kHz.

On 7/1/2025 at 6:13 AM, Tommy Byrnes said:

In new Sonar there is a 1.5 to 2 second pause in the audio engine before playback resumes.

Are you sure about the length of that delay? I think the gap that Noel is talking about is more on the order of an audio buffer or two - maybe 50-100ms if you're running a large buffer. The gap I get is like that - a small fraction of a second.

2 hours ago, Helios.G said:

What surprised me the most was that on playback, the sonar version of the product had better fidelity.

Yes, definitely 20-40% better. ;^)

22 minutes ago, Matthew Carr said:

In Sonar, how would I know how to select channel 17 as the input (or any input >8)

 

The CbB screenshot is showing "X-AIR ASIO Driver" while the Sonar screenshot is not showing "ASIO". Possibly you have the drive mode set to WDM or WASAPI...?

Is CbB still giving expected results with the same project in both cases?

Sonar has revised External Insert functionality that now supports using mono channels of a stero pair independently among other things, but I've not seen any issues with it except in very esoteric use cases (e.g. putting two mono external inserts in series using channels of the same stereo pair which - not entirely unexpectedly - causes PDC issues).

I don't often have enough tracks in the Console view to have to do a lot of scrolling but I can't say I've ever seen that issue.

11 hours ago, msmcleod said:

20 hours ago, Larry T. said:

So, you think my current PC with the I7-4770 CPU at 3.40GHz with only 8GB ram will run a full Sonar install ok?? 

Thanks again 👍

FWIW - I'm running a i7-3770 @ 3.4GHz... I've now got 32GB ram, but was running on 16GB for years.  I'm typically use an ASIO buffer size of 64

Likewise here on a 10-year-old i7 6700k @ 4.0Ghz  with 24GB. It continues to run great for my purposes - admittedly using a generally limited number of synths and FX plugins compared to what some users require.  But running more plugins just requires raising the ASIO buffer. 8GB would already have been considered somewhat marginal even in the Sonar 8 era, but is no more limiting now than it would have been then. If it's possble to double it, that would be advisable.

The longest audio file I have handy is two hours and 15 minutes. I just opened the project over WiFi from another PC where it's saved, figuring that would be worst-case. It took some time to draw the waveform, but even before that completed paging back and forth by measures was instantaneous as expected.

So unless the audio has to be a lot more than two hours to demonstrate the issue, whatever is happening seems to be peculiar to your system or Sonar configuration.

You might try turning off/disabling your interface to see if it has something to do with Sonar's interaction with the audio driver.

14 hours ago, Tez said:

create an untitled project & keep it untitled, add an instrument, audio & midi tracks, record some midi & bounce the midi to audio. Check the Audio Data folder that's where untitled audio data is found and you'll see just the bounced track no preview files

Preview files are per-project  but do not have the same kind of internal file association and path encoded in the project file as a normal audio file (that's why you can delete them without Sonar complaining when the project is still open). So the only way Sonar 'knows' that a preview file belongs to a particular project is to save it in a dedicated project folder. Therefore it can't/won't write a preview file to the global Audio Data folder.

14 hours ago, Tez said:

Repeat the above but  this time save as a named project  with copy all audio checked and in the new audio folder you'll see just the bounced track no preview files.  Delete the bounced track and re-bounce, save the project & both preview & bounce files appear but so does the previous bounce track which should be deleted.

Sonar never automatically deletes an audio file once a project has been saved with a track referencing it at any point. That's why Clean Audio Folder and CWAF exist. Automatic clean-up only happens if you close a project without saving the session in which the file was created.

17 hours ago, Tez said:

only the bounce gets deleted while the "preview" lingers, that can't be right and as I stated "This did not happen  with a single instrument midi track test project so it's not typical behavior" this is an anomalous glitch and the cause is a mystery to me...

Project preview files are handled differently; they need to persist in order for preview to work so they don't require re-saving the project. I'm pretty sure this is working as designed. Also, I did a quick test, closing without saving after bouncing an instrument track with nothing else in a new project, and the  two preview files were created as expectedand persisted after closing both the project and Sonar.

18 minutes ago, Tez said:

After a bounce to tracks, even if the project is not saved there are garbage wav files that have to be manually deleted...

Those files are used by the Project Preview function of the Start Screen. Per the documentation they are created by default the first time you export; it doesn't mention bouncing, but Export and Bounce use the same code. This default preview creation will only happen once and the two files will initially have the same content; after that, the file with the longer name will be replaced with a copy of the exported/bounced file only if you pro-actively check the "Include Project Preview' box  in the Mix and Render section. I'm not sure why, exactly, but the file with the shorter name seems to be kept indefinitely as an archive of the first export/bounce you perform while the file with the longer name will be the one that plays when you click the Project Preview playback.

It's been requested previously to have control over the maximum length of the preview file as this can get to be an issue for users who work with hours-long recordings. For typical song-length projects, the extra space used isn't a huge deal, but I would probably opt to limit previews to 30 seconds myself, and not have one created by default.

On 6/24/2025 at 5:53 PM, Under A Mile said:

I think you will find, that if you start removing take lanes, the playback will begin after shorter time the more that you remove. I think also flattening the midi comp will help too.

Yes, clearly an issue with buffering the 130 (!) active lanes of MIDI on Track 4, compounded by all the split and slip-edited clips. Apply Trimming pretty much eliminates the issue. If you were to simply disable Non-Destructive MIDI Editing, I think you would not encounter this issue. Having it enabled means you effectively double the number of MIDI events that Sonar has to manage every time you split a clip.

You can do  this with lanes of an Instrument track but when lanes are not showing, Sonar stacks the clips in the parent track rather than merging their content, and the order in which clips are stacked (i.e. what's on top) can be unpredictable/uncontrollable. When using MIDI lanes, I generally leave the lanes showing so it's clear what's in each lane, and what's soloed/muted. I have previously requested that Sonar visually merge MIDI clips in lanes (and scale them all the same) when lanes are not showing.

Some other differences:

- Input to an Aux track is determined by its Input assignment (a Patch Point) and which tracks/buses are outputting/sending to the assigned Patch Point.

- Input to a Bus is determined only by the Output/Send assignments of other tracks and buses (notwithstanding that both tracks and buses can get input from plugins in the FX bin).

- Aux tracks have a Phase controls that buses do not.

- Buses have Input Pan that Aux tracks do not (allowing you to alter panning ahead of the FX bin)

- [Input] Gain on Aux tracks can add up to 18dB, Input Gain on Buses can add only 6dB.

- Buses have a Waveform Preview function that can be toggled on/off, similar to the "confidence recording" trace shown on armed tracks during recording.

2 hours ago, Andres Medina said:

Rewriting a track manager preset does not work.

When retrieving the newly saved preset, it does not update - keep showing the original layout.

Rather than starting a new project from the template and trying to re-save that over the template, you need to open the template file directly and re-save after modification.  It's always worked this way.

EDIT: Oops, majorly misread that post, though you made it quite clear it was about Track Manager Presets. Carry on.

On 6/22/2025 at 7:36 PM, Tez said:

Project start & end makers work when 1st installed in a project, they appear to save with the project, but...

On reopening the project they DON'T WORK and have to be cleared & re-installed.

Two possibilities:

1. When you set an End marker, Sonar automatically enables Stop at Project End in Track View options, but that option can later be disabled, and the transport will keep running past the End marker. In that case, you just need to re-enable the option.

2. If you have a loop region that runs beyond the End marker, that will override the End marker and the transport will keep running to the end of the loop. Similarly, if the loop starts before the Start marker, playback will initially start at the marker, but when the end of the loop is reached, the tranport will go all the way back to the start of the loop. In that case, just disable looping.

Enable 'Group All Clips' in Record Options (right-click the Record button); this will ensure that clip/take edits are synced. To keep track controls in sync, you can either create a persistent control group for each control or hold Ctrl with both tracks selected (Quick Grouping) whenever you change anything. But a simpler approach would be to output the two track to an Aux track or a Bus, and use the Aux/Bus controls. This will also give you one common place to do automation.

19 hours ago, Under A Mile said:

when I press play, it takes many seconds before it starts, but when I press stop it happens immediately.

This is on existing projects. I tried a new Basic project and this did not occur and recording was ok there too.

I'm betting Count-in is enabled with a muted metronome bus.

1 hour ago, Descamps said:

This is strange Cakewalk Sonar proposes a restriction to allow only one open project at a time...

I'm wondering if this is done for some users to avoid this bug/behavior...

No it's just a convenience feature to facilitate quickly switching between projects without having to deliberately close one before opening the next. And the feature has been around since before Sonar.  I didn't actully think it was the default so it's a bit curious that you had it enabled. In any case, there has never been any particular issue with opening multiple projects or MIDI files at once; I do it all the time, and have not encountered any related delays. It's more likely the issue is related to the source or architecture of the files in question or to plugins, interface initialization or Start Screen/Browser setup. I have sometimes seen file-opening delays related to the Start Screen having a browse path on a network drive. Realtime Antivirus scanning by Windows Defender or other AV can also cause this as can having large archive files on your Windows desktop.

5 hours ago, Grebz said:

Edit: on another try, it did work without selecting a channel.

The forced MIDI channel setting on the track just re-writes the channel of recorded data on playback as it's sent to the output port. It would have no bearing on whether Find/Change (or any other editing operation) is successful. One of the keys to Select by Filter and Find/Change is that you have to start by selecting all or part of the clip to be processed. It's likely you didn't have the clip selected the first time.

On 5/16/2025 at 6:01 PM, Scott C. Stahl said:

Looks like the new Sonar build that came out seems to have resolved my problem. GEN 4 sounds ok now. It's brighter than GEN 3, but only in the way you'd expect with the better drivers. I was hoping the new install would overwrite any bad install files and it seems to have done it.

Late to the party, but it seems highly unlikely the coding of the new build itself changed anything. More likely the installation process or some other event returned some config setting to default. My guess based on the symptoms would be that you previously had 'Remove DC Offset During Record' enabled under Preferences > Audio > Playback and Recording. Try enabling it now, and see if you get a similar result.

UseHardwareSamplePosition tells Sonar to use the position reported by the driver to determine the Now time rather than just keeping track internally. I don’t know details of the implementation but there can be conflicts

On 5/19/2025 at 4:46 PM, chamlin said:

1. Loop was set, then punch record was set within the boundaries of the loop.

2. Made sure the NOW time was set to the beginning of the loop

3. Looped 6 times (6 takes)

4. But instead of the vocal sitting where it was sung, SONAR has again offset the vocal.
     A. The beginning of the vocal is cut off
     B. The vocal in the clip should sit later in the clip than it does

I can't reproduce this after multiple attempts with loop/punch at differet places in the timeline with different lengths (not always snapped to beats) and at various tempos. I still suspect this is related to your particular interface and driver mode; what is it?

Maybe try enabling/disabling UseHardwareSamplePosition in Preferences > Audio > Config File (AUD.INI), depending on what is currently set. You should also try re-booting and/or power-cycling your interface if that isn't happening regularly.

Your original post said offset was 7 measures while your last screenshot shows offset is two measure or less if I'm interpreting correctly. Is it that variable?

In the past mis-located recordings have sometimes been related to metronome count-in and/or specific interfaces. Try disabling count-in and let us know your interface and driver mode.

Like other MIDI controller types, sustain messages have a range of 0 (full up) to 127 (full down). Basic pedals just have an on/off switch that causese the keyboard to generate one message or the other when the switch opens or closes (there's no convention for which state generates 0 or 127; implementations from different manufactureres vary). A continuous pedal presents a variable resistance to the keyboard that allows it to generate intermediate values to produce partial damping in an instrument that's capable.

Continuous sustain messages can complicate the editing process, and in a lot of musical contexts the difference between continuous and on/off values isn't really noticable even in an instrument that supports it. But thinning continuous sustain messages to only 0 and 127 is a non-trivial task; (I might have written a CAL to do it at some point). The easier thing to do would be to configure the keyboard to produce only on-off values if possible or get a pedal that only switches.