Robert Bone

6 minutes ago, Rod L. Short said:

So, mine is set to 1. Should I set it to 2? I get frequent, random dropouts. Might this help with that?  

Well, there are other reasons for dropouts, as well.  Why don't you fire up a separate thread so we can work through it without repurposing this thread?  Kewl?  I will keep an eye out for it, and try to assist you.  I suspect there are some other things more likely to be causing frequent dropouts for you, so go ahead and post that and we can get to work fixing you up. 

Bob Bone

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

Also, if you actually are running SONAR at this late date, give the latest version of Cakewalk by BandLab a spin. The audio engine has had some nice optimization performed on it in the 2 years since BandLab's been in charge of it.

I concur - you can install Cakewalk by Bandlab right alongside your existing Sonar install, without issue - most of us that have Sonar keep it, because that allows any of the bundled plugins that came with Platinum to also work in Cakewalk by Bandlab.  You just create a Bandlab account, download and install the Bandlab Assistant, launch it, click on Apps, then install Cakewalk from there, and in a 2nd install, add in the Studio Instruments, if they weren't already present by your having Sonar installed.

Bob Bone

Glad you are sorted out, and I was happy to help.  We are all family.

Bob Bone

54 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

To boil it down, the user tried a performance tweak that had unintended (and unexpected) consequences.

To take a wild guess, I'd say that with the more aggressive thread scheduling, whatever thread(s) services MIDI interrupts somehow keeps missing the bus (so to speak) on certain systems, and the MIDI latency keeps adding up to the point where it's noticeable and then unusable.

I think at this point it's a "doc, it hurts when I put my arm like this" issue. Works on most systems, just not on mine. My ThreadSchedulingModel only goes to 2, but I won't worry that someone else's can go to 3. The computer is a hand-me-down,

Some might call it a throwback of sorts that Cakewalk uses and exposes such things as .INI files in this day and age, but I suppose it's the result of its long heritage. I don't know how other DAW's do it, maybe they have a program-within-the-program that scans the hardware and sets everything to what it thinks is optimal based on processor type, clock speed, amount of RAM, etc. or the engine adapts on the fly or it's just one size fits all or they do it the same way Cakewalk does, with config files. BandLab has a support staff to recommend necessary changes, anything else is optional on the users' part. It's like editing the registry: back it up and don't even try if you are not good and sure of what you are doing.

The ThreadSchedulingModel is handled and managed by Sonar/Cakewalk, and they had added an 'aggressive model', that is represented by the number '3' for that parameter - where it used to have possible values of 0, 1, or 2, with 1 being the default.

The release notes for Cakewalk's 2020.01 release notes introduce the new 'Aggressive' parameter value of '3', and also quite clearly indicate that this new scheduling model is experimental, and that some folks might experience issues if using it:

From the release notes:

"Optimizations

Experimental aggressive task scheduling model

We continue to work on improving our multi-threaded engine performance and have added a new "aggressive" task scheduling model. The aggressive task scheduler utilizes more efficient task management that can result in better multi-processing and fewer thread context switches. This feature is still experimental so report back if you notice any improvements or problems when using it."

Bob Bone

The ThreadSchedulingModel parameter has to do with workload distribution of CPU core threads, and is described in the online documentation under the Aud.ini online help.

The new parameter value of '3' sets the distribution model to 'aggressive', and was indicated somewhere to potentially yield unpredictable results.  

Please note that the online documentation covering modification of the Aud.ini file quite clearly indicates that making some configuration changes can sometimes cause issues, and it recommends not modifying the file unless directed to, so from my perspective, anyone who DOES decide to modify the Aud.ini file - be prepared to undo changes, if adverse issues arise.

The ThreadSchedulingModel parameter defaults to '1', and possible values are 0-1-2-3.  Here is the online help blurb on this paramater:

"This variable goes in the [Wave] section and controls the interaction of the main audio thread and worker threads on multiprocessor systems when the Use Multiprocessing Engine option is enabled. Depending on the system, a particular model may result in less glitching and better overall performance. The values are as follows:

0 = Same as previous versions of Cakewalk.

1 = (default) Better thread balance. Model is more efficient and can provide cycles for other tasks.

2 = Additional worker thread is created. This may result in improvement with Quad processor systems or higher. Not recommended for Dual processor systems.

3 = Agressive"

Bob Bone

Please edit your initial post, to show 'Solved'.

Bob Bone

Thanks - nothing out of whack with those settings.  It seems odd that were it to be something with CbB itself, we would see more reports of similar issues, but there just aren't, so I am temporarily stymied.

What do you have plugged into your audio interface?  (Mic? guitar? external keyboard's audio output?)

Is Windows maintenance completely up to date (not missing any cumulative maintenancve that might not have gotten automatically installed)?  Please go into System Information and provide you Windows Version and Build.

What happens if you just play some imported CD track?  Does it crackle every so often, or only when you have something plugged into your interface?

Here is a thread where someone had increasing latency - might be worth a read: 

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/10708-201912-major-latency-problem/

I will try to think of some other things to look at. 

Thanks, 

Bob Bone

Is your Windows Update maintenance all completely current?

Bob Bone

There are a bunch of free ones at http://www.igniteamps.com

They appreciate donations, should you decide you are going to use any of them. 

Bob Bone

Any plugins loaded into your project? 

If so, which ones?

Driver Mode: ASIO?

What is your ASIO Buffer Size set to?

What Sample Rate?

What are CbB-reported latencies, shown in Preferences?

Bob Bone

Howdy

1) If the Now marker doesn't advance during playback, check to see if Scroll Lock has been hit (try hitting Scroll Lock to see if the Now marker then starts moving again) - also, if the Picture Cache folder gets a lot of stuff in it, it can cause this - you can go into the Picture Cache folder and clear its contents, as Sonar/Cakewalk will rebuild anything it needs there - there is no issue if you delete the contents of the Picure Cache, because it is just where Sonar/Cakewalk stores the temporary representations of audio files, and they get rebuilt as needed.

2) If the drivers for your audio interface don't release after shuttung down Sonar/Cakewalk, by the time you try to open another project, this can cause issues with launching that additional project.  Sometimes, it takes a bit for the audio interface drivers to release.  You could try looking for audio interface drivers in Task Manager, and killing that, or other folks either power cycle their audio interface, or they disconnect and reconnect the audio interface's USB cable.  That usually does the trick.  Some folks also found success with logging off and back in, to Windows, which also seems to resolve it.  My guess here, is that the audio interface drivers may be at issue.

Anyways - please try the above,

Bob Bone

Hi - I had asked you for some details in an earlier post - can you please answer the following?

from my earlier posts:

"Also, is your Windows up to date on all maintenance, as well as your Cakewalk version, and any firmware or software driver updates for your audio interface?"

and:

"Also, do your issues go away if you temporarily bypass the effects?  (Hit 'E' on your keyboard or hit the FX button ub the Transport Module, to toggle effects processing for the project Off/On.)  Perhaps you have one or more effects loaded, like a convolution reverb or one that uses linear-phase processing, and those are really meant for use during mixing/mastering, and by temporaily turning them off perhaps you can expose that as something to look at."

Bob Bone

9 hours ago, Sunset Recording said:

Hi Robert,

Yes, I'll send you a list of the tweaks. Most came from the sweetcare tips at Sweetwater, some from this forum. Last thing I did to day was uninstall " Bonjour" (Apple product ).  I agree with your tips and like your self I'm not concerned about a few extra seconds for the transport to go. I'm aware of the FX global delete but had not tried that.

I try to be smart with my plugins, but the CPU drag adds up. I must say big thanks to the response I've had today, first time here. reviewing your DAW and PC build it looks like you know a little about hot rod PC's. I"ll be sure and show you the specs on my future build. I'm just an old analog guy, made my living as an engineer in Canada in the late '80's, but switched back to bass where I started my career and ran with that till last year. Most of my  bread and butter has dried up, just a workin cat from Vegas. ( If your paying, I'm playing ) . Strictly commercial.

And guess what, new prob. I just tried to close that project and it won't. Just gives me a " general error" with a yellow warning sign. Never saw that before. sigh, the torture will continue till morale improves.

 Take care,

Cary S.

 

Kewl - would like to review the tweaks.  I am following this thread, so I will get notified of replies.

I was a programmer for 38 years, and have built my own computers for about 20 years, I suppose - long time anyways, and have built a bunch for other folks, though lots of those were for general use, and not specifically for music production.  Happy to look at any current specs, as well as any potential components or pre-built computers you are contemplating for a new computer.

I notice you had increased the "buffer playback setting of  512 to 768" and that is a different buffer than the ASIO Buffer Size.  I am interested in what your current ASIO Buffer Size is, and I would like to know specifically what plugins you have loaded into the project, as well as whether or not you see any difference if you do the bypassing of your effects (FX button), to rule out plugins being the issue.

Also, is your Windows up to date on all maintenance, as well as your Cakewalk version, and any firmware or software driver updates for your audio interface?

Thanks, I will try to keep an eye out for your responses to the above questions.  Perhaps we can get you squared away.  The GOOD news is, since there is not a general complaint about your issues, coming from folks using Cakewalk, that means this is most likely a situation with the causes being within your local environment, so if we take a look at details - maybe we can figure it out.

Bob Bone

I have to make a fairly long phone call, so apologies for having to post this without opportunity to review the results. 

You can also take a look at some of the results from a Google search on the following terms:

VSTSCAN bex64

Perhaps one of those results holds an answer for you.

Bob Bone

I also did a quick check on the BEX64 error - in general terms, and one thought was to change the failing application's Properties, to set the compatability-mode for Windows 7.

Here is a link to that page - might be worth a try.  VstScan.exe normally lives at: C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared Utilities, right-click on it and go to Properties, and set the Comptability-Mode for running in Windows 7, and give it a shot.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/225540/discussions/0/487876568239148234/

Bob Bone

I copied your above problem information into Google's Translate French into English function, and thought maybe posting it here would help folks who do not speak French something they could read, and possibly offer ideas on:

Well, whether or not an individual user would need the editing and scripting power of Kontakt, it has the largest available catalog of both commercial and free sample libraries out there.  I just checked before typing this - I currently have 185 freeware and inexpensive 3rd-party libraries fpr Kontakt, in addition to the ones that come with Komplete 12 Ultimate plus the symphonic ones.  

Bob Bone

You can use curves, or straight lines, or draw your own, with automation on either the master bus or some other common bus just before the master.  (I just apply it to the master bus, but that's just me - not sure why someone would want to go through the extra inserting of another bus just for that purpose, but it is a big planet, so who knows). 

Bob Bone

I am curious - can you please detail the tweaks you made to Windows 10?  Some info out there is not accurate, and some just does not apply anymore, so I would like to see what you have tweaked, if you don't mind posting that.

Also, do your issues go away if you temporarily bypass the effects?  (Hit 'E' on your keyboard or hit the FX button ub the Transport Module, to toggle effects processing for the project Off/On.)  Perhaps you have one or more effects loaded, like a convolution reverb or one that uses linear-phase processing, and those are really meant for use during mixing/mastering, and by temporaily turning them off perhaps you can expose that as something to look at.

So, IF you, for the above, or any other reason, need a larger ASIO Buffer Size for mixing/mastering, go ahead and jack up the ASIO Buffer Size to either 1024 or even 2048, and see if that does the trick.  I record at no higher than 128 samples for my ASIO Buffer Size, and I always set it to 1024 or 2048 when moving on to mixing./mastering, and I switch between a small and a large buffer whenever either recording or mixing/mastering.  It's just the way it works best.  Having a large buffer when mixing/mastering does not adversely affect my projects, because I don't care if it takes a moment longer before starting playback, as I am not trying to sync new recording to existing tracks, I am simply playing back the project, and having a super large buffer helps give the more robust effects enough room to properly do their processing.

Bob Bone

Do you have an audio interface?  Because if you do not, you will likely not find any satisfactory performance.

The process of converting anoalog sounds into digital data, or the other way around, requires a boatload of calculations and such, and if that is all left to be handled directly by your computer's CPU, it will bog down, and cause you to have a very frustrating experience.

What fixes that, is to buy an external audio interface, which is purpose-built to contain circuitry to do all of those conversions back and forth between analog and digital, and its software drivers take care of splitting that work off of the CPU and it routes all of that data to the audio interface to handle it.

There are still some considerations for configuring your audio interface - so if you DO have an audio interface, please list the make and model of it, and we can look at your settings.

A decent audio interface, with a couple of mic/instrument inputs, connecting through USB, can be picked up for around $150, and they go up in price when you start looking at additional inputs and such.

Bob Bone

32 minutes ago, Max Arwood said:

Not so!!!  You need to keep the older version. Cakewalk files with Kontakt 5 loaded will no automatically open with 6. You will loose all you banks and settings.  Best way - keep 5 and  4 especially because 4 will load sfz , 6 will not imports them. and other formats that support.  I don’t think 5 does Sfz but it still import more formats.  All your libraries and such will be fine in 6. 

I agree with this - there is very little space reclaimed by uninstalling Kontakt 5, and as noted in what I quoted, it is a whole lot less of a hassle to just leave all the projects that used Kontakt 5 alone, and just start using Kontakt 6 for new projects.

I run both side by side, and all the old projects load up just fine.

Bob Bone

5 hours ago, abacab said:

I would say TX if you just want to craft your own sample libraries.  It's a good sampler engine. But as far as I know there is not really a  marketplace for pre-made TX sample libraries.

Kontakt has many NI, commercial, and free 3rd party pre-made  libraries.

 

Yup - that reminds me, I wanted to put together a list of the free libraries I have encountered, for Kontakt, in my travels around the web - I do not have enough Dropbox space to hold them all, for folks to come download them, however, I am thinking that if I post the list of the libraries, folks could shoot me a private message with which ones they wanted, along with some kind of email address, and I could upload smaller batches of them to Dropbox and share them with the supplied email address.

SO - later tonight, I will post that list - I think I will do it as a separate thread, but will post here when I get that posted, so people can peruse my list and let me know which libs they want.  Many of them are quite good. 

Bob Bone

2 hours ago, RBH said:

There's a number of Toto live cuts as well that do seem to pull this off. I think I remember a Greg Philiganes version that I remember seemed to pull it off studio style. But that guys a genius - so generally not fair 

I think the way I would try to " fake it "  would be to hit the triad initially but release the root and just pitch the intervals down. Don't forget you get go right into the arpeggio too...those guys are.... nevermind.

I wonder if setting up a multy timberal patch ( same patch voice ) and setting a different pitch bend per voice might pull it off. Something the old K2k's might be good at.

I have the explanations by the Toto folks, on how they did it - just have not had time to finish going through them.  I WILL be posting my findings, as soon as I get to where I can read the articles.

Bob Bone

3 hours ago, Simeon Amburgey said:

Bob, My first thought was they did it with a Yamaha CS-80. I thought I would find a clip of the solo and thought I would watch the official video; I did indeed see the CS-80 but they danced through the solo 😂

I guess the reasons I thought of the CS-80 were; polyphonic after touch and the ribbon controller.

I would love to see what you found out. Now to see if I can find a good clip of the actual solo. 😎

I am pretty beat up from a doctor appt, and will follow up in a couple hours. I am disabled, and doctor days are pretty brutal, so meds and a nap, and I will circle back.

Bob Bone

2 minutes ago, Max Arwood said:

Do you ever post on Usenet.Cakewalk.audio.  Poly mod is great about this kind of stuff. He’s a keyboard genius of sort 

Max Arwood

I believe that old newsgroup vanished back in 2003-2004 somewhere in that ball park.  It doesn not seem to exist anymore.

THANKS for donating some brain waves on my behalf, to think of it, though.    I think that the search results I have already uncovered will certainly have the explanations needed for me to accomplish this.

Bob Bone