Twub

After 120 minutes of trying.... the next day I came back and required an additional 2 minutes to see that the guitarist occasionally sends me back a project with his last punch-in still enabled.

I'm looking into this. Thank you. Creative Sauce has some detailed vids I've been looking at about Exporting.

Yeah? Well these guys are too good to lose. Like I said, I'm the easiest guy in the world to get along with if everyone just does it my way. So here's a new one. I was psycho-pissed over this 20 minutes ago, but these comments got me down off the ledge, sort of. I've been redoing our recordings with my new VST tracks. Great results. Sit down today, to take on yet another one and the MIDI channel's not recording events. The track template works fine in a new project. Records and plays back just fine. Opened yet another project of ours and same thing. I can't get events to happen. Opened yet ANOTHER project awaiting my attention, inserted my track template and I can record like a champ on THIS one. But not that one.....or that one....or that one. But this one, and THIS one goes fine. And ANY new, blank project lets me record. After 120 minutes of looking at EVERYTHING I knew of that could be the critical variable in this discrepancy, I am no longer in any mood to record music today. I would appreciate any suggestions.

Real drums are the finest sounding musical instrument if they are miked and EQd properly. Without a doubt the most beautiful sounding, most devastating instrument on a rock and roll stage. Nothing else even comes close. Acoustic, un-miked drums? I'd rather listen to a table saw cutting sheet metal.

Thanks guys, I experimented with 1. Bouncing all drum tracks to a single audio track, which of course we can't work with in a final mix, so I went with 2. Bouncing them all to their own audio tracks. One thing I discovered here is that the "bounce" was set up to include the FX on the tracks, and it turns out it did. However when you look at the new tracks, the FX isn't indicated. So when I saw no (in this case EQ and Reverb on the Snare Track) I went and (unknowingly) applied the identical EQs and reverbs to the track. So I (unknowingly) EQd my EQs. The result was this new and different EQ and I couldn't for the life of me figure out why my snare was so different in the bounced track. So, even though I stacked an identical EQ on top of the other, it significantly changed the sound. Still sounded good. But very different. Fatter and not as crisp. Anyway, it cost me an hour of head-scratching, but I learned a thing. Yeah, we haven't come to the "who will do what" phase for mixing and mastering. I'm thinking as long as I do all of it, and none of them ever complain about my mix, suggest an alternate mix, or attempt to mix on their own, we'll all get along just fine. I'm easy.

The upload I send back to the rest of the band has to include all of their tracks as well. If I exported just the new stereo bus, wouldn't that mean those other tracks wouldn't go with the project upload?

Thanks again for all your help. I must say I'm thrilled with the result. One last issue and a couple questions and I think this thread can end successfully: What I'm doing here is recording remotely with three other individuals, none of whom have SSD5. (and they aren't willing to make an account with Steven Slate either) We've just been adding tracks and uploading to a shared Google Drive folder; back and forth. I know there's multiple options for bouncing these tracks to something that allows my guys to hear my new synth-drums in the ongoing project. Here's an image of a project. A few of my drum tracks have some FX applied, which I'd like the other guys to hear of course. The project is biggish as it sits. 175 files, and it took 15 minutes or so to upload the thing. (I did an upload to Drive , as is, just to see what) Ideally, I'd like to put all those drum tracks on one stereo audio track, then subtract that entire SSD5 Sampler folder in the tracks pane (but still save it somewhere else so I can recall it) so the SSD5 Sampler folder doesn't have to ride back and forth with the upload/downloads of this project. I'd ask therefore how you guys would do it.

From @Lord Tim: "Start up a new project, then drag over SSD5 into the track header area like you did before, but this time in the dialogue that pops up, put a tick in All Synth Audio Outputs: Stereo This will make 1 MIDI track which you'll use to record your playing, and then you'll get a bunch of audio tracks created. What you'll need to do then is load your preferred SSD5 kit, then name your tracks that were created just to make life easier for yourself, then look at the input for each of those tracks. It'll say Output#1, Output#2, etc. What you need to do then is go into SSD5's Mix page and look for each drum and set the OUT for each thing to correspond to the tracks that were created: So you'll see by default here that everything is "out 1 st" which means everything will be coming in on that first audio track that has Output#1 as the input. So you'd change all of the kicks to "out 1 st" in SSD5's mixer, then all of the snares to "out 2 st" so they come in on the second track that has the input set to Output#2 and keep going until you've mapped the kit to each track. Ideally you'd be using mono tracks for each but it doesn't overly matter too much and that's a bit more work to set up initially." When I did as he asked, I saw why @Lord Timsaid the selection of Stereo Tracks was less complicated to set up. I get one MIDI and 24 Audio tracks. selecting MONO gives me 48 Audio. Perhaps you are inputting to SSD5 thru a keyboard or and external drum machine with 8 pads or whatever they have and you utilize a step-sequencer to produce your drum tracks? I'm not interested in programming 5 and 6 stroke rolls and paradiddles and flams. I play them. My Roland has something on the order of 16-19 separate triggering surfaces, depending on how one counts the hi-hat inputs. Sure, I don't really need to separately put ....say the TOM RIMS on tracks, or even the CRASH BOWs from their edges, but for sure I need to separate the SNARE TOP from the SNARE RIM, and the RIDE EDGE from the RIDE BOW or BELL. I just followed the instructions I'd been given. I can always delete whichever unused tracks that are left over, right? And anyway, my primary issue is the confusion I'm having with SSD5 itself, otherwise I WOULD be recording by now. Like I said, I'm pretty close to rolling.

Message sent.

Yes. I've got SSD5 producing sounds and I've been able to get CbB to put up 48 Mono Audio tracks and the single MIDI track. @Lord Tim had mentioned earlier that ideally I should be using the mono tracks, but for initial simplicity he wanted me to do the Stereo track format. And I did do so, but since then I wanted to check out the mono track option. I'm able to assign the audio tracks to the appropriate SSD5 microphone groupings, (mostly, not everything) and that all seems to be working (mostly, not everything) I'm closer to walking than crawling at this point, I feel. The roadblocks for me now are (primarily) in SSD5 itself, and I think they're exacerbated by some lingering uncertainties of some elements of CbB and like I said, I could gain miles of ground if someone who knew SSD5 well would consent to the both of us each opening SSD5 on either end of a phone-connection and showing me around a bit, answer a few critical questions and generally setting me straight. I think it unlikely that anyone willing to do this has only the "Sampler" version of SSD5 as I do, but I'll bet that there's enough similarities to suffice. And again, voice communication can replace days of texting.

No takers on a SSD5 set-up phone call?

Sign me up. Honestly for what I want to do with SSD5 a one afternoon seminar class would get me rolling. Seven mouse clicks away? Kliks maybe. The ones U.S. infantry units refer to. @Lord Tim asked me what I was using for the EQ on the tracks that I couldn't seem to save. It's accessed on the track itself on the FX selector. It's called Sonitus EQ. I like it because of the number of bands in it, and the focus freqs can be changed. The Quadcurve EQ thingy in the ProChannel only allows for 4 bands. Let me guess; it can be expanded to 144 and has near-infinite customization, right? Sonitus EQ says I have the options to save the settings and name it, but it lies, and I hear laughter from deep inside my PC tower when I attempt these things. Come to think of it, I have been hearing lots of chattering here and there these last few days and nights. It started in my head, about 48 hours ago. I'm sure of that. But now I hear voices from the tower as well. Stepping away from this is not an option! I will return to my band's shared folders with a beautifully EQd drum track for "Detroit Rock City" and "Fairies Wear Boots" and "Manic Depression" and all the rest of them or perish in the attempt! <<falls off chair, shrieking and thrashing about>> I am stepping away tonight, because tonight is Band night and I get to go make noise thru a big PA until the wee hours. ------------------------------- Now I DID see that the All Synth Audio Outputs template that I saved kept those EQ settings that I assigned the tracks, in place. And that's fine. I'll let it go at that. @HOOK said that would be the case. And that video? I've seen it 70 times. It seems to start halfway thru a lecture, and be Part II of a Part I, but of course it isn't. One thing I'll just toss out here is... when people respond to us for auditions, I'm usually the one that vets them. I always insist that they contact me via phone, after we get their initial response from whatever media source they hit us on. Twenty seconds of in-person conversation can equal days of text and Emails from an "information-exchange" standpoint. Any of you fellows willing to try that? e.g. I open my little freeware SSD5 and the other Party, already in possession of SSD5 does the same. Then that other Party gets blasted out of their seat with three-hundred questions uttered in one manic sentence, tells me to shut up and 20 minutes later I know stuff, can be confidant I'm not missing a ton of critical steps and key issues, can sleep again, eat again, etc... What's in it for you? Less noise from me on this thread. Give it a think.

This is starting to get the better of me. Anyway, I realized I hadn't mapped my kit with SSD5. So I think I've got that accomplished. I think I saved it properly. I want to make a customized kit from the (very) limited instrument options in this free version. That's doesnt bother me, though, that limitation. What's there sounds as good or better than my Roland sounds. I'm confident I can make them sound better yet, but... I must be unique among all persons, in that I seem to be the only one in the world who wants to use a virtual kit, but has never seen any of this stuff before. Every tutorial on the internet (for SSD5) seems to assume that the viewer has been working with virtual drum software for years, and this particular one is just another variation of an age old theme. Not a single one shows it for a newcomer who's never laid eyes on anything like this. And acronyms out the wazoo. The one dude used four acronyms in a seven word sentence. I replayed and counted. All of it is for established pros who just might want something different. In SSD5 you choose a kit. You load it. First thing I want to do at this point is name it and save it so I can change it and not overwrite anything. That's not even shown anywhere in any video, and it's not obvious or intuitive. Click on instrument names and drag them onto the kit. Ok. Does that overwrite what was there already? What was there already? And why are there columns of slots on either side of the kit that one can pull instruments into? Do those instruments stack on top of stuff on the kit and play at the same time? How are they assigned? What do I do with the stuff I drag into those slots? Who knows? In these vids, I see it done like lightning, but am not finding out why. Those vids are just like the following example. "You unlock the door when you get closer to it. Get in, start it up, put it in gear and go. Hmm, it's a five-speed, so you'll have to use the clutch for reverse. Shift around 1100, and try not to let it hit 5-grand at any point. Oh, and put your belt on, sorry. How's your gas by the way? Get that junk off the windshield. Wipers on the left of the column. Squirt button's on the end. Go ahead and put 'em on full bore, not intermittent. High beam's on the floor, just like the old days..." Think of the unsaid, unstated intermediate steps in those statements that we all would process without thought while using some vehicle that was "just like a car" but wasn't a car. Some goofy new thing that you'd never seen before. There's a ton unsaid there. A ton. Volumes. Those instructions would work for us, though. No special concerns, right? Just like a car, they say? You'd give it a go. And given what you know already, you'd be rolling almost immediately despite the unfamiliar feel and appearance of the vehicle. Give those same instructions (and nothing BUT those instructions) to William Shakespeare as he stands there blinking at this device and see how it goes. He'd be twenty minutes just to figure out this was something one was supposed to get inside of. And after a day or so of examining it, he just might end up inside it. He won't be worrying about his revs any time soon. You guys that have been doing this forever all know this software didn't exist back in the '80s, but by the time it came along you already had a knowledge base to that allowed you to see where it all fit, and a decent idea of how to implement it. One thing is for sure; you skilled fellows can never again see something like SSD5 thru the eyes of a raw newbie, and see how weird it is. So that's how my fact-finding has been going. You wanna make a fortune? Write a book that takes Shakespeare all the way to a single, simple, completed virtual kit that can be used in CbB.

Yes, I see. I'll certainly take note of "FX contributing to latency" and try to adjust accordingly when tracking. Like I said though, so far I don't seem to have any at this early stage of separating these instruments to tracks. When I said "problems with mixing the kit from two outputs, I probably should have said "EQing the kit from two outputs. " That's what I meant anyway. The same issues surfaced in this new studio environment that I had been seeing for years onstage. You just cant hope to EQ a kit that's only on one channel.

Nevertheless, none detected so far. I'm setting these routing track now, and granted, I've only added the snare, the three toms and the kick. (Because I don't know how to use SSD5 yet and I cant find the cymbals in the SSD5 mix screen) But no delay. I went back and added EQ to each, then reverb, to see if that would up the latency. No latency yet. A couple things though: What does that crazy high sampling rate of yours (compared to my 44100) buy you? and I can't get CbB to save my EQ presets, either - in a bank, not in a bank, nothing. That's a pretty big deal and a show-stopper if I can't recall EQs for these instruments.

Ok, so the latency that is caused by these multiple tracks separating my kit components hopefully is directly related to the number of tracks involved? If that's the case, I could combine, say the three toms as one track, cymbals in another and lessen my latency? Find a workable happy medium that way? Please? Toms for instance in my experience, unless they are very small or very huge, respond nicely to essentially the same EQ settings, with cuts in the low mids, and maybe a boost around 4k for some attack. I'd probably be quite satisfied to treat them all as one, if that could make a difference. Would that help? I'm scared again. I can't play with latency, and I'm not about to try to just "get used" to an acceptable amount. The only way this is going to work is: OK, technically there's latency, but I can't detect it. I just know this machine of mine is going to return a signal 14 minutes later, once I get these tracks all set up.

A quick look at that setting shows me that I'm here:

I don't know what to expect. This PC is very old and that's why it's relegated to the basement. If I encounter unplayable latency conditions, then all this is wasted effort and it's going to break my heart. I don't need a whole new nightmarish battle, with an insurmountable enemy.

Here's a ton of miscellaneous stuff, that needs said. Yes, I've had the ASIO driver as soon as I first hooked up the Scarlett Solo. I've heard about latency from the start, but I've yet to experience ANY latency. Initially I thought that having an interface with a direct monitor setting kept latency at bay. Understand what brought me to Cakewalk in the first place: Recording songs remotely with the rest of my band, and having the options to apply treatments to our tracks in order to end up with a REALLY polished sound in the final product. We have about 15 projects going in CbB right now. (just Tracks. We haven't even delved into final mixing and mastering yet) And I was recording audio, on my end. We all were, this band of mine. The Scarlett Solo has two inputs: one XLR and one instrument. They have differing impedances, and I figured I'd fry something if I tried plugging one of my outputs into the XLR, so I'd been going into the Scarlett from my L Mono output. I took the track after I'd recorded it and converted it to mono. Panning my kit left and right was a thing I never did. Mostly because of gigs. I play clubs in smallish rooms where the audience is close. Even big club rooms really aren't that big. I figured if I ever played Wembley Stadium , it might be cool to hear the kit pan from (my) right to left with some big descending fill across the entire kit. (I'm left-handed) but in some smallish room, why would I want parts of my kit more inaudible than others to folks sitting on say, the right side of the room? But anyway, soon after I started putting out these drum tracks, the old problems surfaced again - how to mix the kit from two outputs. For me, most gigs were fraught with fear: Some new soundguy I hadnt worked with yet, was going to have to be told that I was the mix. That I was going to send him an EQd signal to ONE channel, and he HAD to understand that my channel's freqs were to be kept at zero on his board, and how he could tweak in tiny increments, but if he wanted more highs on my snare, and twisted that knob indiscriminately, he was going to frag everything - my cymbals were going to clip high, the works. And brother, don't EVER even TOUCH the MIDS! On and on and on. I can count on one hand the gigs I played where I thought I actually sounded good. That's a real shame. I'd have people all the time telling me I sounded great, but I didn't. Most civilians are incapable of even knowing the differences in sound quality and would clap and dance to a jack-hammer. Anyway, Latency, this is what this all comes down to now. It seems I no longer even need my audio outs from the TD-17. But with that said, now the Scarlett Solo with it's Direct Monitoring, which used to be right at the front of the signal path, seems to be at the end of it. I don't know what to expect. When those raw sounds from the SSD5 were FINALLY audible to me last night, I detected no latency whatsoever as I noodled about. I made that little recording where I first heard the SSD5 and went back and put EQ on the audio track. It sounded very promising. In fact I was (guardedly) thrilled. If treatments and effects and alterations and tweaks to the kits contribute to Latency, then I might be in good shape here. I'm a simple soul. I'm not looking right now to do much more than see if I can emulate, say, the fat, wet thuds of Bill Ward's super-distinctive drum-sound, or capture that wonderful organically produced ambience of Bonham's "When The Levee Breaks". By the way, "Nearly Lost You" by the Screaming Trees has just beautifully recorded drums from start to finish. That's all I'm after. One good kit, for me, will be sufficient for 70% of the material we cover. All I really expect to do is add or subtract reverb or ambience here and there. Maybe tune a snare up or down occasionally. Covering, say, Rush, or the Police? That's coming - that's going to be a different animal altogether. And this whole time, I'm hoping that things become EASIER for me with MIDI. Lord Tim's statement about saving the Template, is music to my ears. I really find that I enjoy the process of tweaking and refining my sound, but I want to spend as much time as possible playing these things and recording tracks, rather than endlessly fighting the " robbing Peter to pay Paul" battle, with my overall equalization and sound. After 30 years, I deserve it, I think. I paid my dues. You guys are just great, by the way. I'm so happy I found you. Lord Tim -I can't say enough thanks. So, now I have to go dive in - read and reread all this thread, and encounter the next obstacle, whatever that may be. I see there's two new hits on this thread while I've been babbling away here, which I havent seen yet.

Ok, that's gonna take some time, and it's probably a school night for you. Plus I never even got so far in SSD5 to tailor any kits, so I have to dive into that. This is GREAT! But, ALL the kicks? ALL the snares? Wait, so I get whichever one I go with, recorded, right? I still have to figure out why that mapper in SS wasnt working, by the way. Maybe it was the whole time and i was overriding the sounds. There's all sorts of rims and clicks and stuff that have to be assigned. RIght now T2 on the 17 is intermittently triggering a crash cymbal for some reason. I think that's a sensitivity thing internally. All those sensitivity settings and such still apply to this 17 right? Ok, but what this sounds like is what I was told days ago WASNT POSSIBLE - to set up a track in advance, in order to record the next strike of that tracks dedicated trigger. That's what I'd hoped to be able to do from the very start. Go look at my 1st or second post on that other thread. OH BOY THIS IS GREAT!

To start with, I'm getting my kit to play these SSD5 sounds straight off, with no going to the mapping page. I again unplugged both the audios from the interface, and there they are as I play the Roland. Went back and wiped that track, and recorded again. It's working, but I must say I don't know what happened other than the Roland's audio was obscuring these SSD5 sounds. The SSD5 is somewhat muted, well, it's not as loud when triggered by the Roland. The sound in the Roland, like demo recordings and the like, are louder and clearer than that which comes from the pads themselves. Maybe that accounts for this lesser SSD5 volume. WOW! WHAT NOW?

oh and remember how I said that the audio track AND the MIDI track open the SSD5 page? Does that matter which?

Yes Ok. couple minutes...

Here is Snare, rim, T1, rim, T2, rim, T3, rim, T4, rim, Kick, C1 bow, C1 edge, C2 bow, C2 edge, Ride bow, ride edge, HH pedal (I think I did that twice) HH open bow, HH open edge, HH closed bow, HH closed edge. I never did hit the ride bell. Sorry. I never use it. I usually just make the bow a bell.