SuperFreq

I think you misunderstood my post. I'm not trying to copy Gabriel. It's just that he is 1 artist who successfully did what I want to do. There's a particular song I'm doing that requires a visceral, tribal feel. In technical terms we might say bottom heavy. But it just feels naked to me, and I think the objective listener would find it muddy or lacking in energy. That's why I asked this question, to see if anyone had successfully done a song or album with that "woody" organic vibe like we get in Gabriel's "Jan Jacinto" or "The Rhythm of the Heat".

This is something that has intrigued me, but I've never been brave enough to do, ever since I first heard of it. I first heard of this regarding Peter Gabriel's Security album. Supposedly he insisted on "nothing metal", meaning no cymbals, no hi hats, nothing that fills in the shimmery top end the way we're accustomed to hearing in rock music. I think his results were the proof in the pudding. It's an amazing album with an organic, tribal vibe, and he even tricked us by using metal-like sounds that actually aren't. Prime example, listen to the track San Jacinto where the background loop sounds 'metallic' but not quite. Maybe it's some sort of koshi bamboo chime, who knows. But I think the effect is a lot more pleasing to the ear than any metal ringing instrument. Also on that same track, when it kicks in at the end you might expect big symphonic crashes to go with the orchestral swells--and probably 9 out of 10 orchestral arrangers would call for that--but Gabriel's track doesn't go there. Instead all percussion keeps to the low end with the only 'crash' coming from the electric guitar. My question is: has anyone else tried this approach, deliberately avoiding metal objects which to me equates to avoiding the super high frequency range? I've sometimes started a project this way, but I always reach a point where it feels naked without filling that empty real estate up there. How did Gabriel pull it off with such a commercial success?

Edit: just noticed a big mistake. Song offline while making revisions…

Sorry for the late reply... There's no chance unfortunately. In the thread I linked up top, Magic Russ said: "due to issues with the developer, this is not something you should expect to see upgraded to 64 bit any time soon." It's a shame because I use the heck outta VC64. Particularly on vocals, there's a setting called Breathing Vox which is like the Andrew Scheps trick of using 2 filters and an LA-2A compressor to make the track pop out. Except VC64 does it all by itself. I don't think I'll ever quit using it.

I'm going to try that next. Although I survived the real heart stopper (all my old projects being frozen), I'm still encountering problems. After loading in safe mode & skipping all VC64 plugs, I started adding them back one at a time. Apparently it can only handle 5 instances of VC64 on playback before it goes silent and freezes up. This is in Windows 11... I actually did a total reinstall of Win11 & Sonar 8.5 just to be sure it wasn't an installation hitch. So next I'm going to try the X2 installation of VC64. If that doesn't work I'll roll back to Windows 10, or maybe Win7 because I always preferred that over 10. Might seem drastic but I used the heck outta VC64! It's probably my most used plugin ever. Fingers crossed that the X2 version of VC64 clears it up because that'll make my life a lot simpler...

[SOLVED] I didn't install X2 but instead I used scook's safe mode trick to skip all VC64 plugs. Reloaded VC64 on the same tracks and voila, everything works! 🤩

Brilliant, will do! I did create a new Sonar 8.5 project, and VC64 loaded & worked fine. The problem seems to be with old project files that have VC64. Trying to reinstall VC64 with the X2 installer now... will post update...

Huge thanks for checking on that! Now I can narrow it down. Ok so it's not a VC64 compatibility issue with Win11, at least not via CbB. I tried reinstalling Sonar 8.5 but the problem persists. Maybe it's the project file itself but it's happening on 3 I've tested. Next I'll try starting a new project and putting it on a brand new track...

[SOLVED] See post #6 Talking about the old plugin Vintage Channel 64 that came with Sonar up until X2. I just upgraded my computer to Windows 11 with a clean wipe/install of everything. The problem is all old projects that use VC64 are silent on that track. Even worse, if I try to disable, delete or open the VC64 plugin it freezes my DAW forcing an Endtask (I'm using Sonar 8.5). Everything worked fine on the same machine running Windows 10. So that leads me to believe something about my Windows 11 installation--or maybe Windows 11 itself--doesn't jibe with VC64. I realize I may be the only one who has VC64 installed, but in case there are any old timers who have it on Windows 11, can you check to see if it works?

Same can be said about music in general; I haven't heard any new musical ideas since the late 90s. BUT I still enjoy listening to new bands of all genres just to hear the new production tricks that are being used. That's one area where even metal is getting some fresh ideas. I'm talking about metal bands borrowing production ideas from other genres like electronica & techno but really ballzing it up. Have you heard Psychlon Nine? They themselves are a 10 year old band, sorta rehashing the early 90s clubmetal sound (think The Crow soundtrack), but their production is updated and I think it really works. You're right, musically, nothing particulary new... but you gotta admit it's got kick. Not to mention any singer who gets bitchtackled off the stage and gets back up to finish the verse has my respect 😄

Standard even-tempered (MIDI) tuning works, but I was wondering if anyone had experimented with alternate tunings. I'm about to tune a piano for a recording, and I was thinking of trying some of the Just tuning alternates because I want to preserve certain perfect intervals, especially the perfect 5th (downward = 4th). Guitarists, whether they know it or not, often use a type of Just tuning which preserves the 4th. If you tune your guitar by ear, matching the 4th of each string to the next open string, there you go. But my plan is to tune an entire piano this way. Any thoughts or experiences?

Not sure if this is exactly what you're doing but I've gotten good results with this strategy. But I don't do it for every track, just for tracks that need to pop out, like drums/percussion, vocals and solo instruments. For example with drums I have the regular DRUMS bus and I also create a sidechain called DRUMS CLIFF (for that "extra little push over the cliff" if you catch the ref), and the CLIFF bus has extreme EQ and compression that really pulls it to the forefront. Has to be used sparingly of course, because if you do this with every track in your mix then what's the point lol. But yea I feel like I get good results. Not long ago I learned that Andrew Scheps (Chili Peppers, lots of great bands from the 90s-00s) does something similar. So if I'm in the right ballpark, I'd say check out some Andrew Scheps tutorials on youtube for some ideas!

Just a lighthearted thread to vent. I'm sure a lot of people might enjoy the stuff that makes my eyelid twitch. But for the sake of us music makers, how about a list of things that bother us about popular music. 1. People who play a lame harmonica, just because it's there. Yes, I'm looking at you, Bob Dylan. And basically anyone who uses one of those Darth Vader harmonica neck straps. Nobody wants to hear you inhale & exhale your 2 chords that sound like a drunk weasel gettin busy on a pair of uggs. Instead think of hiring a real harmonica player, those guys rock. Compare Billy Joel Piano Man harmonica (eyetwitch galore) with his follow up Leave A Tender Moment Alone where he got the amazing Toots Thielemans to smoke a mean comb. Now that's what I'm talkin bout.

You nailed it haha. Well, maybe even worse... These aren't midi beats I'm manipulating. It's an actual drum performance that I'm monkeying with, so I'm nudging wav files. I'm trying to keep it simple, like nudging the drums a few ticks in front of the beat/instruments for a measure or two. In this particular song it's very sparse, mainly just a piano and vocals, so I have a lot of leeway. By bumping the drums in front, it makes it sound like the piano is kinda lazy in a good way, but psychologically the drums are pulling the instruments and the listener. I dunno man, like I said earlier, may be the placebo effect and actually it's doing nothing. I wish I were a drummer so I would know instinctively how to manipulate the beat. But I'm stuck doing the mouse click approach PS that's hilarious about BP's tall tales. From what I saw in the video he seems like the kinda guy who could invent a good yarn

I didn't watch the entire vid, but those grooves (Fool In The Rain, Rosanna) are definitely what I'm going for. They add a subtle busyness to the rhythm, without overcomplicating it, that really injects energy into the song. Didn't know Purdie was the guy who invented it!