Tezza

I think it was a feature of the old sonar forums that has migrated over here. I'm on most DAW forums but the old sonar forum takes the cake for off topic posts put on threads, sometimes little irrelevant comments just to get someones post count up. I suppose some of it's funny but not when you search for an answer to a cakewalk/sonar problem and then end up at the old forum and have to sort through all the rubbish to find the good bits.

Yep, it doesn't interest me at the moment but I am sure it will hypnotize others into using. Just another thing to learn when I already have too much to learn already. Yes, like playing in a band is one thing and sitting at a computer with a DAW is another. You can still enjoy photography without going near Photoshop, just find a decent wet lab near you, take your snaps and get them to develop the images, turn out great! Like old school, never have to go near a computer. Professional photography has become reliant a bit more on the computer though. Screens are hypnotizing and manufacturers of products that use screens are working out more ways to make them even more enticing, it all looks fantastic, you buy it and then 3 months later move on to the next shiny new item. What should I do with my music this Saturday morning? Phone some mates have a jam and some coffee? Go busking down the local? Stay at home and fire up Cakewalk by myself? One is easy, I don't have to go anywhere, the other two will take more effort and organization. Will the screen win?

I think you have to download the program direct to your DAW via a stub installer, that's no good for me with bad internet and offline DAW. on-line authorization is fine, just put the dongle in and takes a couple of minutes if that. offline is also ok, I just can't download products direct to the DAW, takes too long and fails repeatedly. Unless I can download the product on my laptop in a good internet area and then transfer it to my DAW then the company does not suit me.

It could be that the majority of people who voted in that poll were people who came over from Sonar and already had good instruments and a long history of making music with Sonar and so were quite technical and therefore picked up the more obscure audio editing needs. Either that or they found out what other DAW's do when they were forced to abandon Sonar for another DAW. This could be why audio editing was at the top of the list. I would have thought instruments would have been at the top because Cakewalk doesn't really have any, but at least it's second! EDIT: I read the posts from that thread with the poll and the majority certainly seemed to be longtime Sonar users who all already had good instruments that came with Sonar and could be used with Cakewalk. I think this may have skewed the poll against instruments.

The suspense.......

I am attracted to the "all in one" DAW, I know you can get bits and pieces here and there but I would prefer to get everything from one developer, so you just buy the DAW and away you go. I would suspect those who have sonar or other third party instruments wouldn't notice that Cakewalk doesn't really have instruments. All Cakewalk needs is a decent sample player (like halion, dimension pro or kontakt etc) and a couple of good synths and some pitch correction software then it's done and dusted. As long as it can all be authorized under one developer like Bandlab then that's it. Keep the DAW free but then you pay for the add on pack which contains the sample player, the two good synths and the pitch correction. Don't tie them to the DAW so others can buy them for their different DAW's. This way you keep the capability of owning a great DAW for free but then people can choose to upgrade to the premium version. I think it's a mistake to assume that everyone is using or even has third party instruments, I think people still want the "all in one" DAW at least to start with.

I am well aware that higher amperage is important which is why I choose higher amperage audio interfaces but the fact remains USB powered devices have lower voltage and amperage than the 12 volt firewire and pci devices. I learned the difference between the two and the effect on quality of computer audio about 20 years ago. I could write a long list. There is no need to be insulting and demeaning. I am aware of the low 500ma restriction on USB devices which is why I avoid them. Saying you can "drive" high impedance headphones with USB power, well you certainly can, just as you can "drive" active monitors with USB powered devices but if you knew anything at all about computer audio production, you would understand that there's a big difference between "driving" something and getting good quality audio and no, it's not just about the quality of components. The 12 volt 1 amp circuit from the computer sounds much better than the 5 volt 500ma circuit, simple as that, the bass is tighter and the volume is way louder and can more effectively run professional devices, probably not as noticeable at lower volumes, but the headphone output will be clearer and has to work less to produce the same volume. It's just higher quality, when you turn the amps up on those USB devices, for either headphones or active monitors, they don't sound good. But then again, this is fairly basic information. I am aware of this but again, I was talking sheer volume and the laptop internal audio at 12volts 1 amp beats the pants off the USB 500ma devices, sounds fuller as well to me, although this might just be adding bass to make it sound better. Where the laptop audio fails is in the upper register, the clarity and clearness and cleaness of the signal, which I have already said in a previous post, which you have apparently not read. We are so lucky to have you here to spread your great wisdom that is above all others! Actually, we are driving speakers, although usually not larger than 8 inches, remember an audio interface for a DAW usually drives active monitors as well, the more power the better, and again, no, USB powered devices won't sound as good driving cans or speakers, especially when you turn the volume up. Sounds to me like you've come from some audiophile site, you don't seem to understand a lot about music production. Finally, something I didn't know, I wasn't aware USB3 delivers 900ma. Again, you use that word "drive" you can drive anything with anything, doesn't mean it sounds good.

Thanks Peter, this does not answer my question though, I need to know specifically whether you can download the products to an online computer and then transfer them to the offline DAW. I cannot find any information about that on the site. thanks.

I like to get everything running dry first and then put a reverb on a bus and send tracks to it. Some reverbs that are part of the synths, sampled instruments or guitar amp sims to tailor the sound can sound awful to mediocre but sometimes they are good so might leave that on. Vocals benefit from delay rather than reverb, reverb pushes them back into the mix so only a little is needed.

Thanks for reminding me, yet another plugin that I have that got lost, I'll see if I can find it. For those that don't know, this is a plugin that you put on the master track and engage it when using headphones, it is supposed to make the headphones more neutral for mixing or you can supposedly make your headphones sound like other headphones. There are much more expensive versions of this same type of plugin. I haven't tested it sufficiently enough to provide an opinion on it.

Thanks for that Brian! I don't have the black senny bag, they are put in a draw, but in me moving them into a large bag with the other phones, this is timely knowledge!

Something to think about, just because Focusrite say that a particular interface "can drive" a particular set of headphones, doesn't mean you end up with a good sound. I had the 2i4 and to be honest, I wouldn't go over 60 or so ohms on that, in fact using 32ohm varieties would be best. When you turn up the headphone amps on those USB powered devices, they sound terrible, harsh, brittle and gritty would be my description, but with lower ohmage headphones where you don't have to turn up the volume on the unit to get the same volume in your headphones, they are fine, in fact quite good. I was mainly using my 54 ohm HD380's with that unit and they were fine. In addition, the headphones themselves if they are higher ohmage, need a good amp driving them to get the sound they are intending to make. Typically, if the power source is not what they are expecting, the sound will have reduced bass and overall presence. The last thing to understand is that just playing back music is one thing. It is when you use the headphone jack to track, then you may find you have to really turn up the volume to balance the direct in with the sound coming from the DAW, that's where I notice the difference, voice can sound terrible at loud volumes on higher impedance phones but fine on lower ones. I would say that for the best sound, to cover yourself in all situations and give you some headroom, the true ohmage limit for each device would be one third of what they are saying. so about 65, 85 and 200. This is the guide I would use and only my opinion of course.

I would agree that you need a headphone amplifier to drive the 6 series but they are not going to sound good through an audio interface alone, especially a USB powered interface. Laptop audio out's are generally much more powerful than USB audio interface outs. They are driven off mainboard power 12volts as as opposed to 5 volt usb, higher amperage as well. I'm having a tough time at the moment deciding which sound I prefer for my 598's, the sound from my laptop or the sound from my audio interface. Laptop sound is more powerful, bigger and fuller, more bass, audio interface sound is less powerful but slightly clearer and better balance, might be better for mixing but in terms of sound separation, the laptop sounds better. In terms of generally listening to music, the laptop sounds better. Difference is not so noticeable with the other headphones, given the 598's are only 50ohms, I would hate to hear what 250ohms into a USB powered interface sounds like.

I also posted this on another tread just recently, may be more relevant here: It's nice to have monitors because you don't want to be wearing headphones all the time but the truth is, unless your in a good acoustic environment for your monitors then you are probably better off using 2 or 3 pairs of headphones both to set up and mix and then use the monitors as reference. I also have 4 pairs of headphones at the moment as well and I find I mainly use those for setting up sounds etc. HD 280 Pro - Best isolation of any studio headphone i've heard, great for getting a good sound from your acoustic guitar and separating harmonies but highs just a touch harsh, a bit clampy and weird looking on your head HD 380 Pro - Really comfortable to wear for long periods and great for vocals and separating out midrange instruments, they look pretty cool as well. ATH-M50X - cups are a bit small, just touch top and bottom of my ears, i don't have particularly big ears, they make everything sound good but not that accurate on midrange instruments. Brilliant for hearing drums and bass, toms, kicks, can hear really well, great for general listening and when your first putting stuff together and don't want to be bothered that much about what things sound like. HD 598 - very light and comfortable, good for general mixing and vocal foldback monitors when there is no click involved, I don't care about bleed from instruments! I seem to be using these a bit more for general listening. They certainly seem more sensitive to anything that is not mixed right. Also great for identifying stereo placement. I was going to choose between these headphones but instead have decided to keep them and get a headphone bag to put them all in.

It's not just the sound, I like the Sennheiser 598's for mixing, they have a single sided straight detachable cable and you can also get the shorter cable for them, they are light and the velour pads are nice, they also don't clamp so are very comfortable for long listening sessions, they sound great. They are also 50 ohm so you can use them without an amp, just plug straight in to the audio interface. Ticks all the boxes, I don't like the dual cabling or the high impedance of the 600 series. I don't want to buy an amp, just another annoying gadget sitting on the desk. With all the other open back headphones I looked at, there seemed to be some annoying feature. The beyer dynamics don't come with the velour pads in the lower ohmage model, the AKG I cannot stand the noisy squeaking birdcage sitting on your head and I hate coiled cables, worse than useless for my uses. Others may like different features.

If you buy the fender collection, does that come with amplitube or do you have to buy amplitube separately and the fender collection is an add on. I did try the demo of amplitube but got rid of it, I don't like their shop mentality, everything was minus a feature that you had to go to the shop to buy. Also, I don't think their install and authorization process is compatible with my DAW. I don't think you can download to a separate computer and then transfer the product over to the offline DAW, I might be wrong there though.

I would pass on the behringers, that model has those very brassy sounding tweeters, everything sounded metallic to me, i had them for a while. I don't know about the M-audio's though, they don't have front facing ports. It depends on your current monitoring environment, big or small room, how far from the wall you can put them and whether you have the physical space to put them in. The 8 inch monitors are pretty big. If they have to be close to a wall (which is normally the case) and you have a small/average bedroom, and you have a smaller physical space to put them in, 5-6 inch front ported monitors will probably suit. I've got some gen3 5 inch KRK Rokits, I quite like them and they have to work in different environments. You can hear the bass, they also have front ports and both high and low adjustments on the back. I can usually set them up ok wherever I am. I only ever use them at low volumes and they do that well. It's nice to have monitors because you don't want to be wearing headphones all the time but the truth is, unless your in a good acoustic environment for your monitors then you are probably better off using 2 or 3 pairs of headphones both to set up and mix and then use the monitors as reference. I also have 4 pairs of headphones at the moment as well and I find I mainly use those for setting up sounds etc. HD 280 Pro - Best isolation of any studio headphone i've heard, great for getting a good sound from your acoustic guitar and separating harmonies but highs just a touch harsh, a bit clampy and weird looking on your head HD 380 Pro - Really comfortable to wear for long periods and great for vocals and separating out midrange instruments, they look pretty cool as well. ATH-M50X - cups are a bit small, just touch top and bottom of my ears, i don't have particularly big ears, they make everything sound good but not that accurate on midrange instruments. Brilliant for hearing drums and bass, toms, kicks, can hear really well, great for general listening and when your first putting stuff together and don't want to be bothered that much about what things sound like. HD 598 - very light and comfortable, good for general mixing and vocal foldback monitors when there is no click involved, I don't care about bleed from instruments! I seem to be using these a bit more for general listening. They certainly seem more sensitive to anything that is not mixed right. Also great for identifying stereo placement. I was going to choose between these headphones but instead have decided to keep them and get a headphone bag to put them all in. Not a headphone thread I know, but you might find them more useful than monitors if you are in a bad acoustic environment or cannot make too much noise.

I've only got 8gig ram and don't have problems with the Komplete Ultimate 10 libraries in Kontakt 5. I'm not sure how many I use on one track though, drums, bass, pianos, trumpets and then reaktor synths etc. I have my libraries on a dedicated internal SSD though.

Sounds good, with the analog lab, from what I've seen it acts as a browser and simplifier for the whole collection. You can browse all the sounds you have from Arturia and then pick one to put on a track, is that how it works, a bit like Komplete Kontrol?

Thanks Toddskins, I could get V5 for $180.00 aud but this is of course Australian dollars. New collection 7? is $499 us so that will be about $700.00 plus aud. Yes, I get the full licence transfer, my own account and access to all updates and remarkably, Arturia doesn't even charge a licence transfer fee. The plan would be to get v5 now, muck about with it and then in December upgrade at half price which will be about $150.00 so I end up with the latest version for around $330.00 aud in total rather than $700 aud. I know you can go crazy with super synths that might sound "better" but then your CPU grinds to a halt with just a couple of tracks. I think the Arturia synths are lighter on CPU, is that correct?

That's just a little honk on the guitars, not much though, what are you using to monitor? should be able to pinpoint it and remove, probably around the 300 to 500k range. Should be able to find it with a parametric eq and medium/narrow Q. If your losing meat when you EQ just make the Q narrower. I thought a bigger issue with the song was the drums, didn't have the bigger reverb stadium type sound normally associated with that style of music, in my opinion of course. Sounds good though!!

Because I can no longer use Native Instruments due to Native Access not being compatible with my bad internet, I am shopping around for new suppliers of instruments and there is an Arturia Collection V5 and some others for sale locally from a mate who has stopped music production. Arturia clicks all the right boxes for me. Their products are downloadable onto a separate computer and then can be transferred to the offline computer, as well as the updates and they also supply the .nks files for Kontrol. Just wondering if anyone else uses them in Cakewalk, any problems? sound quality?, CPU usage? etc

Moved to instruments and effects

Yes I got one for my kontakt libraries but the cheapest I could get was $159.00 aud at MSY here locally. Typical aussie prices. I just buy the cheapest samsung ssd drives I can get, use them for operating system and the libraries but I have a traditional 7200rpm HDD for my recording. I have another Samsung SSD for external backup. Samsung have good reputation but at the end of the day, the cheapest, dumbest, slowest SSD you can find is still going to be way faster than anything you will ever be doing with music production.

I would have liked to be involved in this but had to return K12U due to native access not being any good for me with awful internet. Even with the hard drive, it has to be connected to the internet all the time and downloads gigs of stuff that you cannot control. Unlike K10U which installs straight from the hard drive and updates can be manually downloaded from another computer. So sadly, unless my internet situation changes drastically, I will never be able buy any NI instrument again.