jono grant

"Always echo current midi track" doesn't seem to fix or relate to this. I think that just automatically makes a midi track live when you click on it. When I turned that feature off, it just made it so that when you click a midi track it didn't go into live input and you had to click the input monitoring button manually. But the sync issue still persisted.

Gotta be something causing the random "mid track out-of-sync when PDC override is engaged on another live input track...

Anyone?

Thanks

1 hour ago, Logan_4600 said:

+1

+1 seems to nudge a selected clip. Does it also add a lane somehow?

I was looking for a way to reorganize any lanes that had multiple clips on them.

Hi, just wondering if there is a way to reorganize take lanes similar to the old "rebuild layers" from earlier versions of Sonar?

I'll sometimes find that I have two things stacked on a single layer and I want to organize it with a click.

Possible?

Thanks!

In my preferences, the option "Always echo current midi track" was enabled. 

Is that likely the issue then? I've turned it off, will see if the problem persists and report back I guess.

PS. Yes, if I need to punch in a lot, I'll set up the midi track twice, so I can record to the PDC override track and move the recorded midi onto the 2nd track that has no live input button selected.

It would be great if they could figure out a way to only apply the PDC override on the input itself, rather than the track so that already recorded data would play in sync and only your live instrument would have the PDC override on it.

I'm still not 100% sure why "Always echo current midi track" is needed in the first place.

J

You would need to click on a midi channel for it to be active or "live" though. This is not the case.

And again, it's only happening on a single midi/synth track. If I delete that track it will move to another midi track and put the PDC override onto that track's instrument.

Freezing all synths and not using plugins is not something you should have to do just to record a track.

This is acting like a bug, the PDC button is only supposed to remove the delay on any live inputs, that is it's main purpose.

Another strange thing is, it's hard to reproduce the problem if I try to. It almost seems somewhat random.

Somehow when it happens, it seems to be leaving a midi channel/synth output's input set to "on" even though it appears to not be active.

24 minutes ago, David Baay said:

Yes, that's expected. It's not possible to compensate existing content, and not compensate live input on the same track.

Hard to say what might be going on without knowing where in the routing the PDC is being introduced, and how all the tracks relate to it.

I know Guitar Rig, itself, can induce PDC with some patches, and you can't override PDC on tracks that are in the delayed path.

What plugin is inducing the PDC, and where is it?

I don't have the problem with tracks that have plugins, only one particular midi track at a time.

Basically, it should only be overriding on a live input track and it's not, it's overriding the live input track and also overriding on a single midi/VI track. I see no reason for what track it chooses either. I've done tests to try to figure that out. It fairly random.

The help says this:

Some signal routings can cause tracks to be out of sync when Live Input PDC Override is enabled. To prevent any potential sync problems, follow these suggestions:

Output the live input tracks directly to the final bus in the signal flow.

Send live tracks directly to a hardware main

*This doesn't seem to make any difference. What other routing issue could cause it to override PDC on a non-live track? Gotta be something causing this.

Thanks

J

Another aspect I've just tested is that only one midi (VI) track will go out of sync, not all of them.

I just did this test:

- Add a new VI instrument (ivory piano), played some quarter notes and quantized them.

- Then added a new audio track with guitar rig, engaged the PDC override. The Ivory piano went out of sync even though not live. The other midi track (drums) was fine.

- I then deleted the piano track and now the midi drum track played out-of-sync.

It seems to choose one midi track and also override it's PDC as well as the live input I'm performing on

27 minutes ago, azslow3 said:

Just to clarify... To don't hear a delay on live inputs you turn OFF PDC (PDC is on by default for everything).

Normally when turned off, PDC affect live inputs. So, live inputs are out of sync with the rest but can be monitored without delay.

So, you observe some synth(s) with not armed nor monitored MIDI track on input are also ignoring PDC, so they are in sync with your live recording, right?

Pardon me, yes, hitting the PDC button overrides the delay which is normally always running. I wish for it to only override the live input that I'm tracking (as it says it will do) but it is also overriding some of the virtual instrument/midi tracks, which are not set to live input monitoring.

On another note, if I do a punch-in on my live track, I have to listen to it out-of-sync until the point that I start playing, which is really hard to deal with as well. I have to create a seconday track to avoid that (one with recorded audio and one for new tracking)

Hello,

If I have a session containing midi, audio and plugins and I wish to track something, (lets say a guitar running through guitar rig) I need to turn on PDC so that I don't hear a delay on my live input.

I believe PDC should only affect live inputs: however, it seems to also disable the delay on some of my other midi tracks, which are not set to live input monitoring.

The result obviously is that certain tracks are out of sync when I have PDC engaged.

Why is it affecting tracks that are not set to live input monitoring?

Hoping it's something I can change in the settings.

Please help! Thanks!

Jono

I feel the need to check in from time to time about this issue.

Cakewalk for quite some time now, has an issue where it pads the beginning of any cakewalk file that has an mp4 or certain quicklime video loaded into the session time-line or perhaps the video itself contains the padding. The result is that everything looks and sounds fine in cakewalk when you are scoring to picture but after you export your music score, it is not in sync with the same video in other audio or video programs. When the MP4 or QT video gets inserted into a project, Cakewalk has about a frame of padding (or space) at the top of the file. That padding or space goes completely unnoticed until you export something as a broadcast wave or regular wave. You bring that audio into another program like Pro Tools or a video program like Sony Vegas, and that audio will play close to a frame late when brought into the new program's time line. (one of my original posts about it below.

After many forum threads, the last I was told about it was that it has something to do the newer Windows Audio Architecture and that Cakewalk couldn't really do anything about it.

Considering my other programs like Pro Tools or Sony Vegas don't have this issue in Windows would that be because they don't use the Windows Audio Architecture? (Hope I'm using the right term!)

I wish Cakewalk would consider finding away around this or create a work-around for when you're working with MP4 or Quick Time files in Cakewalk. Like some sort of offset mode or similar. Or perhaps Cakewalk could try to work out the issue with Windows developers? Not sure what to suggest but I do know it's a really big flaw in Cakewalk for those wanting to use it for scoring or sound-designing to picture.

This is one of the other older posts:

Anyhow, If anyone has any insight or ideas I'd be thrilled to hear about them...

Thanks! Jono

23 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Yes that was the reason.

If you download the latest update this issue has been already fixed. Hidden buses will no longer cause preview drawing to stop working.

Awesome! Thanks!

Jono

19 hours ago, MusicMan11712 (aka Dr. Steve) said:

Is this thread relevant to what you are trying to do?

Thanks, it is a little.

I have it going now.

I removed it from being a Mackie control surface and used the Korg Control Editor to set it up as a CC controller. Then you unplug it, hold down "set" and "cycle" while you plug it back in. Then I opened Cakewalk and it functioned like a midi CC controller. (To use as a control surface you unplug it and hold "Set" and "Record" while plugging it back in.

Thanks!

Jono

Hi there,

I just set up my Korg Nanokontrol 2 with cakewalk and I have it working as a control surface. Play/stop/mute etc. All working great.

What I wish to do though, is use it to control parameters inside softsynths. Like, hit "learn" move a control on the Korg and it gets recognized in the soft synth.

i can't seem to get that going. Can anyone point me to a tutorial or document that explains this?

Or just give me an idea what might be wrong? I have it set up and checked in midi devices in and out but Cakewalk doesn't seem to respond to any messages. Perhaps because it's set up as an Act controller? Not sure.

Any help would be appreciated...

Thanks!

Jono

On 10/8/2019 at 12:29 AM, Noel Borthwick said:

Fixed it. Its related to hidden buses. The hidden preview bus was confusing the waveform drawing.

I have the "preview" bus hidden, is that why I have the issue then?

Thanks

Jono

16 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Can you upload a small project file with the issue? 

Here is one (attached)

Wavefore preview test.zip

2 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Have you been following the release notes? There is a Click behavior option to "Set time during playback" that allows you choose whether clicks in the clips view sets time or not. Clicking on clips always set the time - that's not new behavior. If you prefer to click exclusively in the time ruler then turn off that option.

I'm not seeing your problem with bus preview. There were several fixes to bus preview in this release. Can you be more specific about the conditions under which it doesnt work? If I start playback I see bus preview drawing fine without clicking anywhere.

 

I spoke too soon. I thought the wave form preview was working again but after closing and reopening the session and other sessions I still have the problem. I'll attach a short video showing the issue

Thanks

1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Have you been following the release notes? There is a Click behavior option to "Set time during playback" that allows you choose whether clicks in the clips view sets time or not. Clicking on clips always set the time - that's not new behavior. If you prefer to click exclusively in the time ruler then turn off that option.

I'm not seeing your problem with bus preview. There were several fixes to bus preview in this release. Can you be more specific about the conditions under which it doesnt work? If I start playback I see bus preview drawing fine without clicking anywhere.

 

Thanks Noel! I had not seen that! Worked like a charm. Funnily enough, after changing it to not "Set time during playback" the wave form preview worked properly again! And even more odd, when I switched it back again the wave preview still worked.

Thanks very much!

It seem that waveform preview (where a preview of your waveform gets drawn on-the-fly) does not work properly in CWBL.

Nothing draws during playback unless you click on the screen/bus and then a small portion of the waveform will show, this is the same on synth audio tracks. Also, clicking anywhere on the screen now in Cakewalk makes the cursor go to that point which is very annoying. You used to have to click on the ruler for that to happen which was great.

Cakewalk, think about fixing "Waveform preview" so it works and perhaps put back clicking on the time line without changing cursor during playback. There are many reasons you need to click on the screen to un-highlight things etc. You rarely need the cursor to move when you click the screen.

Thanks

5 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Yes we can repro the issue where ghosted data prevents it being moved. This is not new. One one hand it could be argued that invisible data shouldn't move.
However it seems to negate the select envelopes with clips option so it can be unexpected. We'll consider changing it.

Add a setting called "maintain position of invisible data/automation" on/off or something then perhaps? I would think the idea of hiding ghosting data would simply be to clean up the screen and not have anything to do with moving data.

3 hours ago, Chuck E Baby said:

Yes sir, this was using the latest version (which I believe was 7.2019) when I made the video.

This  is a good observation @jono grant. Now we might be getting somewhere. Let me check out some things on my set up and get back to you. It might be Ghosting data. Try enabling it by doing this...

To enable/disable data type ghosting

Click the Track view Views menu, point to Display and choose Display Ghosted Data on the submenu

You nailed it brother!!! That was it!

SO, CAKEWALK tracks do not get selected with their clips if "Display Ghosted Data" is not enabled.... now we know. And that IS a bug,

@Noel Borthwick ^ see above^ The clips should get selected regardless of ghosted data showing. Nothing to do with each other. They should fix that IMO.

Thanks Chuck E Baby!!

1 hour ago, jono grant said:

I know you're trying to help and I appreciate it very much! I was just saying "what should I look for in a global setting?" is all. I went through all the settings in preferences turning stuff on and off and testing again, no change.

I have Platinum as well and the problem doesn't exist there either, only in the Bandlab version. The one major difference I see, is that in both X1 and Platinum, when a track is set to "clips" it still shows a very faint image of the envelope on top of the clip and when you select a clip , you can see that the envelope also gets selected. In Bandlab however, the clip does not show the faint image of the envelope and the envelope does not get selected along with the clip UNLESS you expand the automation lanes, then it works as it should. I thought it might have something to do with x-ray but it didn't.

I also tried using the track filter to switch back and forth, it didn't make a difference. I think that has the same function as the tools HUD but wanted to make sure.

I wonder what it could be? Video card related? No idea. All my versions of CW (plat x1 and BL) have the same global settings as far as the way I set them up...

I've attached a short video showing my preferences/settings in BL.

settings.wmv

Hi Chuck E Baby, just noticing in your video above that your envelopes are faintly displayed even when you're in "clip" mode. Mine does not do that (unless I'm in X1 or Plat)

Is your video above in Bandlab? Might be a clue there... Thanks

7 hours ago, Chuck E Baby said:

Seriously though Juno, I wouldn't have downloaded your project, tested it, uploaded the video if I wasn't trying to help you.

sometimes things go beyond my spec. Wish I had an answer for you.

The only link between our set ups I can confirm is I don't have X1 installed on my PC. I have Sonar Platinum and up (Bandlab). So that I could not test. Does it happen in every single project you are using ?

EDIT- Something else I just took note of in your video is you are using the Tools HUD to access the Edit filter (switch back and forth between Automation and Clip). Have you tried using the Track Edit filter instead (Like I did in my video) ?  Just looking to replicate every step in order to find a bug if there is one.

I know you're trying to help and I appreciate it very much! I was just saying "what should I look for in a global setting?" is all. I went through all the settings in preferences turning stuff on and off and testing again, no change.

I have Platinum as well and the problem doesn't exist there either, only in the Bandlab version. The one major difference I see, is that in both X1 and Platinum, when a track is set to "clips" it still shows a very faint image of the envelope on top of the clip and when you select a clip , you can see that the envelope also gets selected. In Bandlab however, the clip does not show the faint image of the envelope and the envelope does not get selected along with the clip UNLESS you expand the automation lanes, then it works as it should. I thought it might have something to do with x-ray but it didn't.

I also tried using the track filter to switch back and forth, it didn't make a difference. I think that has the same function as the tools HUD but wanted to make sure.

I wonder what it could be? Video card related? No idea. All my versions of CW (plat x1 and BL) have the same global settings as far as the way I set them up...

I've attached a short video showing my preferences/settings in BL.

On 10/3/2019 at 4:34 PM, Chuck E Baby said:

When we do the same thing in Cakewalk by Bandlab it works. Even your own project worked as expected on my set up. Got to be something in your global settings.

Okay but what?

Thanks guys, from your advice I got it working after watching this video on youtube:

Very tricky! Thanks again!

Yes, I definitely have that option set, as I showed in the video. When I do the same thing in X1 it works.